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Low-clock-frequency "large format" laptop- or tablet-style HPC-type device

i336_ Page Icon Posted 2014-02-19 9:49 AM
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I'm looking for an HPC-type device with a large form-factor screen (so perhaps not a "handheld PC" by the strict definition of the term ) which runs on an ultra-low-power CPU with as low a clock frequency as possible (40MHz is my base target; I want to get as close to that as I can). I'd actually prefer to sometimes have a keyboard and sometimes not, so while a tablet device would be especially cool, a laptop-type device would prove highly practical too, so I'm interested in both.

So far, I've turned up the Vadem Clio / Sharp Mobilon TriPad (both seem to be the same device?), packing an 84MHz 64-bit VR4111 and a highly dubious-looking keyboard which looks decidedly impossible to touchtype on. Is there anything else out there that doesn't use a 206MHz CPU?
I've also heard there are cheap ~100MHz "netbooks" floating around; could one of these be force-underclocked, perhaps, or is there anything like that quietly running a <100MHz CPU?


I'm looking for a particularly low-frequency CPU because, after years of not really knowing what I could do about my sensitivity to EMR (just about everything "computer-ey" makes me tired/irritible/skittish/etc eventually, unfortunately), I discovered an Ericsson MC218 PDA in an op-shop, the first device which seemed to break this trend.
I figured it was the combination of the fact that the CPU was an especially low-power type (ARM7TDMI-based ARM710T series) running at the particularly low clock speed of 36.864MHz. Thus, I'll have the most confidence sourcing a ~40MHz replacement device, but in the (likely) case there are no ~40MHz tablet-type devices with larger screens out there, I'm experimentally seeing how I'll go if I get something slightly faster.
Apart from that, if the device's LCD was greyscale this would be especially interesting: this would lower the power draw by the device even further and make it an even better fit for my requirements, and it'd probably have longer battery life too!



I'm also interested to know if there are any low-powered HPCs out there which can run Linux/UNIX reasonably well; if this device could be made to run Linux (or NetBSD), that would be really awesome.

Thanks in advance!

-i336
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stingraze Page Icon Posted 2014-02-19 11:42 AM
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Hi, I suggest getting an old Libretto from Toshiba. It's pretty small considering it's a laptop. It's Windows 95 era.

dimension from one of the old models:
210×115×34 mm

Some models:
Libretto 70 : 100MHz
Libretto 40CT: DX4 100MHz
Libretto 50: 75MHz
Libretto 60: 100MHz

There's a whole list at wikipedia at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba_Libretto





Edited by stingraze 2014-02-19 11:43 AM
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CE Geek Page Icon Posted 2014-02-20 7:14 AM
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The NTS DreamWriter IT might be another candidate, though at 80 MHz only a little slower than the Clio C-1000/TriPad PV-6000:

http://www.hpcfactor.com/hardware/devices/specification.asp?d=138

Kinda bulky, though, and it has an SH3 processor. (But it also has a 3 1/2" floppy drive. ) Extremely hard to find nowadays, though.
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i336_ Page Icon Posted 2014-03-13 4:39 AM
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I'm extremely hesitant to post this (in case the delay in my posting doesn't suggest that ), but I'm curious about the flood of "Windows CE laptops" that aren't particularly hard to find on eBay (and, if I'm feeling particularly insane, Alibaba). I'm fascinated with these for no other reason than the fact that some of the cheaper models I've found incorporate a 100MHz CPU, making them the slowest "embedded" devices with a large-format screen I've yet found.

Now, unlike most of the people unwittingly buying these, I realize what WinCE is (the first things I'll be installing are VNC, SSH, and an RS232 terminal program ). That said, I've still read umpteen thousand million "DO NOT BUY, THESE BREAK IN ANYWHERE FROM 2 DAYS TO A MONTH"-type messages, which is a bit disconcerting because these units typically retail between $60-$100+, which is a LOT for something that will last a very short period of time.

That said, I'm interested in ANYTHING with a a >6.5" LCD and a keyboard running on a low-powered/embedded platform, Windows CE-based or not (although I do want to try WinCE ). A good example of the kind of system I'm looking for is the Sony CLIE TH-55 Palm OS 5 PDA, which ran a Sony-built CDX2230GA CPU that could dynamically scale from 8MHz to 124MHz depending on how much power Palm OS needed at any given point in time. The result was a color PDA with serious oomph which you only needed to charge weekly. But the TH55 is a PDA, and its 3.9" 320x480 LCD is a tiny bit small


stingraze:

I've been considering old PC-class hardware for a while now, but I actually think that it's the overall electromagnetic "profile" of the device as a whole, rather than just the CPU for example, that decides whether it'll be a problem or not. So I'm actually *specifically* interested in a CE-based device, both because it uses a (presumably) lower-power ARM processor, but also because the other components in it - at least hopefully - will be lower-power than their PC counterparts, because of the device's general classification as "low-power".

All of that said, it's entirely possible that I could find a PC laptop that fits my requirements - but of course that requires testing, and testing requires sourcing hardware to test - finding stuff that works is a slow process mostly involving chance. By targeting low-power architectures, I can at least hope my chances of finding something that'll work for me are higher (especially based on the feedback from my PDA).


CE Geek:

Umm, aesthetically speaking, that looks really... *fruity*, is I think the word. And a 3.5" floppy drive?! O.o wow... fascinating ...I'm not sure...


-i336_
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CE Geek Page Icon Posted 2014-03-13 5:26 AM
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Only one of the older (pre-CE 3.0) H/PCs had an ARM processor: the HP Jornada 820, but I don't think that'd suit your needs, cuz it's hardly low-power with its 190 MHz SA-1110 processor. All the low-power CE devices (under 100 MHz) used SH3 or MIPS processors. If you're wedded to ARM in that speed range, you'd have to look at older Psions like the 5mx (or its alter ego, the Ericsson MC218), which ran Psion's trademark Epoc operating system (the precursor of the Symbian phone OS).

Anyone who blows off all H/PCs as fragile or unstable is selling them short. Many of them, in particular the ones made by HP (other than the 820), are pretty sturdy.
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i336_ Page Icon Posted 2014-03-13 5:53 AM
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AGH. While typing the above post I thought I'd mentioned ARM and realized there was MIPS and SH3 too, but I thought I'd removed the reference!

I'll leave that post as-is for thread continuity, but consider "ARM-only" invalidated - I'm interested in any architecture at this point: I'm really trying to get at the (hopefully) "especially" low-powered peripheral hardware/chipset it'll come with. So anything with a big screen (even monochrome) is interesting

And yeah, I've been looking at the Jornada 820, which is a really cool device... except for the CPU bit, yea

Ironically, I figured I'd leave this info out since I mentioned it in the companion thread linked in the first post - but I actually have an MC218 - this was the device which showed me there were devices out there that didn't tire me at all

The MC218 is really a good example of the kind of thing I'm looking for; this post I made on the hackaday forums shows some photos of the MC218's PCB - you can see just about everything is integrated into the CPU, and there are only a couple of peripheral chips.

Unfortunately, the MC218 is a bit of a boring device, sadly, since I can't think of anything to do with/on it. :/ It has a built-in programming language but no UI bindings were written for it so you have to write all your own UI code, and I don't have the attention span to do that on such a tiny screen (hence my interest in a bigger screen ) while constantly thinking of battery usage - if I type on it every day all day it lasts about 4-5 days and constantly plugging in the little linear (not PWM!!!1) PSU I made for it has progressively lifted the power socket off the PCB...

I really do need to remember to open the modem up again and see what CPU it has inside it, so I can find out how fast it is. The setup I have here atm has the router about 5 feet away on the floor, which seems to not have been a problem for a year or so now. Interesting... (Note to self: take photos of *everything* you open...)

-i336

PS. You post fast!

Edited by i336_ 2014-03-13 6:08 AM
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Duckworth Page Icon Posted 2014-03-13 11:50 PM
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I think you could buy an old Pentium laptop and get some nice use out of that. I had a 75 MHz laptop back in the day.

There is also even older laptops which have CPU speeds even slower than that but can be programmed and get more utility than a CE device. HP's early Omnibook series actually could run off AA batteries.
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i336_ Page Icon Posted 2014-03-14 12:09 AM
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Okay, that thing has THE most unique mouse EVER Practically speaking I'm a bit unenthused by the x86 architecture, since its core focus wasn't low power, but I might turn something up, yeah // I played with an old Pentium 233-based system many years ago. I hadn't yet learnt that "tired" meant "this is radiating EMR your nervous system particularly doesn't like", but it made me feel a bit weird... I don't remember exactly how so I can't say for sure, but I think there was something in that laptop I didn't like. Might've been the power supply or anything. // (Hunting for embedded = slightly easier...) // -i336 // (This message has paragraph line breaks in it, but the forum isn't interpreting them for some reason, probably the browser I decided to try using to post - hence the //s)
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Duckworth Page Icon Posted 2014-03-14 12:53 AM
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The early Omnibooks were actually very power efficient as evidenced by the battery source. They had grayscale displays and no backlights
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CE Geek Page Icon Posted 2014-03-14 5:29 AM
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While we're talking about devices that can run on AAs, I wonder if the HP 300LX/320LX/360LX would suit your needs. Again, SH3, but I personally like my 360LX, especially with its ability to charge rechargeable AAs on-device while using it at the same time.
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i336_ Page Icon Posted 2014-03-14 8:24 AM
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Hrm, the OmniBook greyscale display thing is interesting...


A quick poke around revealed that the HP 3x0LX series have really low battery life :/ so I guess my first question now is... how solid is the DC input socket? Does it loosen itself off the PCB if the unit is constantly jigged with the plug inserted, like has happened to my MC218? ()

Also, the rubberized keyboard looks impossible to type on easily. Hopefully looks are deceiving...?

Finally, my biggest gripe with the MC218 is that I can't hold it in my hands and type using my thumbs. It's simply impossible, and to approach 30-50wpm on the thing (I don't touchtype) I have to put it on a very stable, flat surface (but then I can type moderately fast). Can I hold this AND type on it at the same time?

-i336

Edited by i336_ 2014-03-14 8:26 AM
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CE Geek Page Icon Posted 2014-03-14 9:33 PM
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Read the rest of the thread - that was just my recollection from my most recent extended use (which was some time ago). Based on others' experiences, it should probably last quite a bit longer.
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Richard Plume Page Icon Posted 2014-03-15 12:18 AM
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i336_ - 2014-03-14 3:24 AM
Also, the rubberized keyboard looks impossible to type on easily. Hopefully looks are deceiving...?

Finally, my biggest gripe with the MC218 is that I can't hold it in my hands and type using my thumbs. It's simply impossible, and to approach 30-50wpm on the thing (I don't touchtype) I have to put it on a very stable, flat surface (but then I can type moderately fast). Can I hold this AND type on it at the same time?

-i336


The keys on the 360LX are hard plastic, not rubberized. As for holding it and typing, you probably can. A two-handed approach will allow you to type with your thumbs and a single-handed approach will allow you to use your thumb and a couple of fingers. Not too bad, but not too fast. On a flat surface you can't really touch-type, the keys are too closely spaced.

Back in 2011 I wrote some mini reviews of some of the H/PCs that I've used. You might want to check it out here.

Rick
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aoresteen Page Icon Posted 2015-01-09 1:53 PM
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Back in the day there were DOS utilities that would slow down a "fast" computer to 60, 40, 25, 16 or 8mhz so that old games would play at a normal speed. I had a 160mhz Pentium that I would have to slow down to play some old games that were written for the original IBM PC. Perhaps there is a software utility that could solve your problem.
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