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Windows 10 Mobile - the next HPC2000?

Paianni Page Icon Posted 2015-07-25 10:23 PM
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Given MS Mobile's recent layoffs of ex-Nokia staff, making up the majority of that division, I'm curious if Microsoft may start to recede from consumer consciousness and focus on the industrial end of the market, just as what happened with CE .net and its successors. The name 'Windows 10 Mobile' also seems like a clue to me, because what other reason would there be to change it if the 'Win Phone' brand couldn't stand on it's own?

Edited by Paianni 2015-07-25 10:25 PM
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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2015-07-26 8:09 AM
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I would not expect this one to follow through Paianni, W10M is Microsoft finally completing the migration to NT as a single device core plus a unified app ecosystem. I don't see them binning it any time soon.

It's got back to Mobile because its licensed for any 8" or smaller device, not necessarily a phone.

Given how much consumer grade fluff is in it, I cannot imagine that it'll attract embedded industry development.
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Rich Hawley Page Icon Posted 2015-07-26 10:00 AM
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Still MS share of the smartphone market is so tiny...and even with the great Lumina 635, a fine phone, but very few apps for it, they haven't gained much...
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Paianni Page Icon Posted 2015-07-26 10:54 AM
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C:Amie - 2015-07-26 8:09 AM

Given how much consumer grade fluff is in it, I cannot imagine that it'll attract embedded industry development.
It won't, neither did CE, but it is a much safer market for Microsoft since they can save on the phone baggage and there are still plenty of businesses dependant on their services that might benefit from extra integration.

HPC2000 also targetted personal users but it was the last of its kind, as I think 10 Mobile might be. The HPC2000 period also saw Microsoft shifting priorities as most development post-launch was focussed on Pocket PCs. With the recent layoffs what benefits are there for MS to continue marketing for consumers - especially with things like Cortana being ported to Android?

Edited by Paianni 2015-07-26 10:55 AM
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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2015-07-26 1:52 PM
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You say that, but once they got out of the consumer stuff, you wouldn't know when you were looking at CE. MS kept developing it and it kept making money, so clearly it did appeal to industry.
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Paianni Page Icon Posted 2015-07-26 3:36 PM
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But CE is now redundant for embedded things, as NT now runs on ARM and does a perfectly good job in that field. The market is completely different in that regard. My main point was the similarity in the market position of Windows 10 Mobile and HPC2000 in the consumer space. Windows 8 would have been nothing without Lumia, and it needs a decent amount of support from other mainstream manufacturers if it is to remain a viable platform. In this case, if it doesn't have the hardware then the software will fail.
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MontyOnTheRun Page Icon Posted 2015-07-26 4:38 PM
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Not all ARMs are born equal. There are weaker systems that still benefit from CE to this day.
In fact, just the other day, the power company inspector came in to check our installation and he was carrying a CE-based data collector.

The other day, at the office, our company started creating a more controlled inventory and all the labeling was created using a CE-based data collector as well.

In Brazil we have a say: "A bad vase will never broke". Sometimes it's hard to kill outdated/unsexy/'bad' tech simply because they do the job and is reliable enough.
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Rich Hawley Page Icon Posted 2015-07-26 5:40 PM
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If I owned a business and had a perfectly operational and reliable inventory system based on CE, I wouldn't change it just because there is something newer out there, even if it is better. I would need to realize a profit in making a change. Hence, CE is around to stay for another decade I'm sure.

But as the equipment ages, then one day I will need to buy new hardware, and if the only thing is Android based ARM hardware, then so be it...that is what I will be buying. Whatever is the most popular, dependable, and inexpensive.

CE may still be around, and cleverly concealed behind the main screen so much that you would never know that it was CE...but the day of CE handheld consumer product for the masses is over...and to get my fix then will require me to visit sites like this for vintage memories...
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CE Geek Page Icon Posted 2015-07-26 6:57 PM
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From everything I've seen online, the one thing Windows CE excels at is running on very low power devices. Even some people using older Android-based tablets have been all too happy to find Windows CE firmware they can flash onto them. Windows CE still appears to be the overwhelming choice for operating embedded devices and controls (cleverly concealed, as Rich says). My Android 4.4 tablet shows the "not responding" dialog on a regular basis while I'm using it. So it's been sitting unused for a lot of the time while I continue to use several CE 5 and 6 and WEC 7 devices on a regular basis for various things.

I still believe that Windows CE as a surface OS got a bad rap from the beginning and was never able to overcome it because doing so would have relied on the cooperation of software developers, who instead believed the bad hype and ran the other way - while continuing to treat Windows Mobile as though it were a completely different system, continuing to develop for it until the Android surge. There are many things CE could have done but never did because no one was interested.
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Paianni Page Icon Posted 2015-07-26 9:31 PM
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I'm not denying how useful CE is for the devices designed to take advantage of it, but the system is not relevant anymore from a market perspective and was always going to be sidelined by more powerful hardware in the respective fields, when the technology caught up.

I feel the topic's modulated very quickly to the point where I'm maybe touching a few too many nerves. I don't really want to talk about CE as a whole, I don't have an argument against it because of the reasons given above, I'm not sure why others think I'm trying to bash it.

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CE Geek Page Icon Posted 2015-07-27 12:31 AM
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No one's saying you are, Paianni. But your original post seemed to suggest that W10M might migrate into an environment that's still dominated by CE. In reality it's not nearly the same thing, since it represents an effort to merge handheld devices with desktop ones, meaning a more bloated OS running on devices with more power than CE is designed to run on.
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Rich Hawley Page Icon Posted 2015-07-27 12:46 AM
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Nothing wrong with bashing....I've been a CE fan for years, and am the first to stand on a soapbox and preach about its shortcomings.

But not because of its shortcomings...because in its time, it was the best there was and led the pack...but Microsoft shot themselves in the foot making the development packages too little, too expensive, and too late. They may be free now, but weren't always.

But CE could still be the undisputed leader today if it had been developed and marketed differently I believe.

Nothing wrong with bloated OS these days CEGeek...the hardware is cheap and can handle it. Not like the old days when every byte had to programmed carefully and debugged the same way...now a days memory is cheap and plentiful. We can afford sloppy programming.
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CE Geek Page Icon Posted 2015-07-27 3:45 AM
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Tell that to my Android tablet, Rich.
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Alt Bass Page Icon Posted 2015-07-27 8:11 AM
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Paianni - 2015-07-26 6:36 PM

But CE is now redundant for embedded things, as NT now runs on ARM and does a perfectly good job in that field. The market is completely different in that regard. My main point was the similarity in the market position of Windows 10 Mobile and HPC2000 in the consumer space. Windows 8 would have been nothing without Lumia, and it needs a decent amount of support from other mainstream manufacturers if it is to remain a viable platform. In this case, if it doesn't have the hardware then the software will fail.
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Paianni - 2015-07-27 12:31 AM

I'm not denying how useful CE is for the devices designed to take advantage of it, but the system is not relevant anymore from a market perspective and was always going to be sidelined by more powerful hardware in the respective fields, when the technology caught up.



You are mixing the CE (Embedded Compact) and it's usage in mobile personal computers.

As long as market rules the devices development there will always be low powered computers. ALWAYS. Because manufacturing 300 MHz CPU with 2 MB of RAM/flash is ALWAYS cheaper than manufacturing consumer grade CPUs with loads of RAM and flash.

Edited by Alt Bass 2015-07-27 8:11 AM
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