Why do people hate Windows CE?
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CE Geek
Posted 2017-02-18 7:25 AM
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I've always thought the opposite. Since it looks very similar to desktop Windows, well, that which we call a rose by any other name . . .

There was a lot more that Windows CE could do than it ever really got a chance to before Microsoft started hiding it from the user's eyes with silly overlaid interfaces. All the software written for Windows Mobile could have been instead written for newer Handheld PC platforms keeping the core interface, and Windows Mobile marketed as an alternative interface instead of the mainstream one.
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takwu
Posted 2017-02-19 8:06 AM
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mikeschn,
actually the Surface ran Windows RT, it has nothing to do with CE. It's a version of Windows 8 for ARM processor. But yes people did mistake that it would run PC software.

It's kind of sad because my colleague the other day asked me the same thing about Windows 10 Mobile Continuum. He thought the phone could run PC software if connected to a monitor, which I kindly informed him was not the case.

But it's not the name. People did not think that Windows Mobile or Windows Phone could run PC software, because they didn't have the desktop GUI. It's when they see the desktop GUI in CE/RT/Continuum that they think it can run all PC software.

That's why I am actually quite hopeful about that Windows 10 Cloud edition. It does not have a desktop (that I know of). It's just plain "Tablet mode" GUI. Just what's needed for the next Windows for ARM.

Hopefully because of that the general public won't hate Windows 10 Cloud the same way they did CE/RT.

For some of us though, it's really sad that we can't have a MS desktop GUI on ARM without all these controversies

p.s. trust me if Apple put the MacOS GUI on an iPad they will receive the same hate.
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takwu
Posted 2017-02-19 8:18 AM
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I just realized that CE Geek made about the same point I did

But I don't think MS was "hiding CE". It's simply streamlining the GUI for the Palm form factor. CE was introduced for the HPC form factor, and the GUI was designed for HPC (and formed the basis for the GUI in Windows 95, which was released right after).

The same GUI didn't work quite as well for the Palm sized PC, so they made some changes for Pocket PC, while HPC kept the existing one.

That's how I interpreted it anyways
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CE Geek
Posted 2017-02-19 6:40 PM
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My point was that they killed the H/PC form factor before it got a chance to reach its full potential. When CE 5 and 6 (and WEC 7) netbooks were introduced, Microsoft refused to embrace the idea and build on it.

Apple did try putting a Mac OS style interface on a mobile device. Remember the eMate with Newton OS? What killed that was the hardware (in particular the terrible battery life), not the OS. As I recall from what I've read, people liked the idea.
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C:Amie
Posted 2017-02-19 7:50 PM
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Quote
takwu - 2017-02-19 8:18 AM

(and formed the basis for the GUI in Windows 95, which was released right after).



Windows 95 was released at the very end of 1994, Windows CE the end of 1996. So it's the other way around
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takwu
Posted 2017-02-20 12:17 AM
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oh thanks C:Amie I stand corrected
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mikeschn
Posted 2017-02-20 12:35 AM
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Takwu,

Wow, I didn't realize that Microsoft was going to try it again with the Cloud Version. And what I understand is that the only apps you can run on it, is what you buy in the Windows Store. What I don't know, is Cloud going to run on ARM cpus like Chromebooks? In other words, are they going to resurrect Win RT? Or maybe Win CE? Or perhaps just strip out all the features in Windows 10? This will be interesting to watch! Do you know if Windows RT was instant on, like Windows CE? Can you imagine Windows CE coming back as Windows Cloud?

Mike...

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takwu - 2017-02-19 3:06 AM

mikeschn,
actually the Surface ran Windows RT, it has nothing to do with CE. It's a version of Windows 8 for ARM processor. But yes people did mistake that it would run PC software.

That's why I am actually quite hopeful about that Windows 10 Cloud edition. It does not have a desktop (that I know of). It's just plain "Tablet mode" GUI. Just what's needed for the next Windows for ARM.

Hopefully because of that the general public won't hate Windows 10 Cloud the same way they did CE/RT.

For some of us though, it's really sad that we can't have a MS desktop GUI on ARM without all these controversies
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takwu
Posted 2017-02-20 3:30 AM
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Chromebooks don't run on ARM CPUs right? All the ones I have seen have Intel x86 processors. But then again I would not be surprised if Chromium has been ported to ARM?

I don't know much about Windows 10 Cloud. I only found out when someone posted about it here in the OT forum. At this point it's only some leaked info about its existence. MS hasn't announced it. So there is a lot of unknown.

Windows RT is instant on, just like any iPad or Android tablet. I have owned a first-gen Surface since they had the first price drop.
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mikeschn
Posted 2017-02-20 10:28 AM
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Actually, most cheap Chromebooks do run ARM processors. There's only a few higher end Chromebooks that run Intel.

I did some more reading, and found out that Microsoft made an agreement with Qualcomm to put a version of Windows on their ARM processor(s). I wonder if the Cloud part in the name is because of always-on connectivity to the internet? Just imagine how that is going to impact people that are sensitive to Big Brother watching?!
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3154417/computers/arm-pcs-with-windo...

I've heard that MS only wants to run UWP apps, and/or apps that are downloaded from the Windows store.

This version of Windows will run 32 bit apps in an emulator, which will slow down that app some, but only if you have permission from the Windows Store.
http://www.efstec.com/?p=1438

Mike...


Edited by mikeschn 2017-02-20 10:36 AM
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takwu
Posted 2017-02-20 2:26 PM
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Thanks for the links.

Which Chromebooks run on ARM processors?

The PC World article was wrong on one thing. The Surface (and Surface 2) uses an Nvidia ARM chip, not Qualcomm. Altho all the Windows Phones did use Qualcomm chips.

I don't think the new Qualcomm x86 emulation would make a huge difference. It would probably be too slow to run most apps smoothly. But I am just speculating.
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mikeschn
Posted 2017-02-20 2:49 PM
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takwu - 2017-02-20 9:26 AM

Which Chromebooks run on ARM processors?

I don't think the new Qualcomm x86 emulation would make a huge difference. It would probably be too slow to run most apps smoothly. But I am just speculating.


I'm guessing that why they want to limit the apps to Windows Mobile Apps ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Windows_Platform )

And I'm guessing I got Chromebooks confused with SBC's. There are a lot of Intel Processors in Chromebooks, albeit slow...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook

Mike...
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mikeschn
Posted 2017-02-20 4:57 PM
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Here's a good article on the transition from ARM to Intel in the Chromebook world...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2834764/arm-vs-intel-why-chipmakers-...

Mike...
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takwu
Posted 2017-02-20 6:07 PM
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Thanks again for the links.

UWP is what MS use to make it easy for developers to build one app and port to PC, phone, and continuum. These apps can easy support both x86 and ARM. So that's why I think x86 emulation on an ARM chip is not really needed, at least for these apps.
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