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If there was a modern Psion or HP Jornada type computer that ran full Windows, would you buy one?

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If there was a modern Psion or HP Jornada type computer that ran full Windows, would you buy one?
OptionResults
yes (I would pay up to $600 to 900)35 Votes - [67.31%]
35 Votes [67.31%]
yes (I would pay up to $901 to $1500)2 Votes - [3.85%]
2 Votes [3.85%]
yes (I would pay up to $2000)1 Votes - [1.92%]
1 Votes [1.92%]
no14 Votes - [26.92%]
14 Votes [26.92%]

mobilesalesman Page Icon Posted 2008-02-12 8:30 PM
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ZSX - 2008-02-12 6:46 AM

I agree with John. In theory a device which does everything in a pocket-sized format with a good keyboard is the holy grail of mobile computing (at least for me). The reality is that current technologies preclude what I think is really essential in a portable device, which is a 24-hour battery life (with moderate use), instant on and internet connectivity (WLAN/WWAN).

That said, there are a whole slew of low power chips out soon, including the Intel Silverthorne (x86 compatible with a theoretical idle power drain of 0.01W) and the VIA Isaiah. Then there's the new ARM Cortex A8 for embedded OSes which touts much higher processing power while keeping within the same power envelope. As with current chips though, it is the display and the radios which are the real battery drainers, so unless we see a revolution in display technologies, connectivity or batteries, a Jornada computer running full Windows with those attributes will remain a pipe dream.


For me the key is being mobile and having a computer all the time to do work. I would rather not have to carry a laptop if there was a Jornada type device or even better a Psion Revo type device that ran full windows. Both of those devices had great keyboards and were coat size, which is what I want. I do agree with others whom have said they need to run industry applications which I am in the same situation. Office suite software is ok but that is not enough to do all my work.

What I think would be the best is what Dualcor tried to do but had the wrong form factor. They had both os in the computer windows mobile and full windows. That would provide long battery when doing just office word etc. but then would allow users to load specific programs needed that only can be bought for windows.

I hope a new handheld that ran windows is not a pipe dream. Searching the internet I've seen some very cool devices like the Samsung sph p9200 but they can not be bought outside of Korea. I think most of those Korean touch type handheld devices are built around wimax which is way beyond the US wireless so it might be decaded before we catch up with the Koreans and can buy their handhelds?

Granted the HP Jornada, the Psion, the NEC and others were and are great machines but they can not run forever so I hope people start recreating new versions with the many new chips and technology today before they get worn out?
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2008-02-13 4:55 AM
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Mobile 88... Yeah I can see your reasoning but I think it's all about the correct device for the correct job... Using a Cad regularly on a 7" or smaller screen, I would have thought, won't really be all that nice. (you wouldn't see any designer or artist wanting to use a tiny screen regularly).

Thats where the problem comes in. even if you could get a good PC that size I could see you switching back to the laptop very quickly. And it's probablly the reason there isn't many apps for HPC to do this task, it just isn't practicle.

I used to think a full pc that size would be the ultimate device but in reality and now that I have gone through loads of gadgets and devices I would not be that keen any more....

Anyway IIRC did sony not do a tiny picturebook that IIRC would actually fit in a pocket? I remember seeing someone on a train with one once? Use a couple of CF cards in place of the HDD to extand battery and there you have it a pocketable PC.

But there is the crux people say they would want one but when they have actually produced one 1000's of people havn't rushed out to buy one.

John
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2008-02-13 5:08 AM
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http://www.dynamism.com/flipstart/main.shtml

Intresting little device.... And it's only $699 at moment.

John

Edited by mr-mac 2008-02-13 5:10 AM
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2008-02-13 7:19 AM
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Was just looking and aparently it even has a small external screen that allows you to review emails etc. while it is in standby....

It may be that this device is half way in between an HPC and UMPC type device... Very nice indeed. Still think my Sig3 suits me better but I do like it a lot
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mobile88 Page Icon Posted 2008-02-13 5:22 PM
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mr-mac - 2008-02-13 4:55 AM

Mobile 88... Yeah I can see your reasoning but I think it's all about the correct device for the correct job... Using a Cad regularly on a 7" or smaller screen, I would have thought, won't really be all that nice. (you wouldn't see any designer or artist wanting to use a tiny screen regularly).
I am not a designer so I just need to view the files regarding CAD most of the time. I have used pocket cad on my 720 and even with the small narrow screen it displays good enough as it displays 1/2 vga. The other programs I use for my industry are only available on windows.

Thats where the problem comes in. even if you could get a good PC that size I could see you switching back to the laptop very quickly. And it's probablly the reason there isn't many apps for HPC to do this task, it just isn't practicle.

I travel enough and am dealing with clients so I would definately not go back to a full laptop if I had a Jornada sized laptop. There is no MS project for HPC and in general most business applications outside of MS are not available either in hpc. I see the reason for the lack of programs pretty simple as Microsoft stopped supporting hpc2000 what back more than 8 years ago? whom is going to make more software on a dead platform?

I used to think a full pc that size would be the ultimate device but in reality and now that I have gone through loads of gadgets and devices I would not be that keen any more....

Anyway IIRC did sony not do a tiny picturebook that IIRC would actually fit in a pocket? I remember seeing someone on a train with one once? Use a couple of CF cards in place of the HDD to extand battery and there you have it a pocketable PC.


??? I did a search and found no pocket size device from Sony? Sony made a umpc but it is so wide in depth that it is not pocket size and besides it is thumb input

But there is the crux people say they would want one but when they have actually produced one 1000's of people havn't rushed out to buy one.

John

I have yet to see any touch type computer since the days of the Jornadas. I would buy one but I dont think they exist?

Regarding the Flipstart it is way to wide to ever fit in a jacket; I believe it is more like 5 or more inches wide. A typical jacket pocket can only handle maybe 4.25". Plus that device is thumb input which I hate like a passion. The best thumb device is the OQO but I really want a touch type keyboard. On the OQO if you add up the cost for external keyboard that folds, docking stations, etc. to make it a workable business mobile computer you are up to $2500-3000! Some people here were balking at a mere thousand or so. I've tried to keep up on technology and periodically do hours of searches for new handhelds every 90 days or so but have yet to see any like a true Jornada or Psion. I do not see a crux as I would have found such a device if it was for sale. The problem is that computer companies have lost touch with mainstream users to me.
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ExPsionMan Page Icon Posted 2008-02-13 6:05 PM
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Hi - Perhaps we should all ask ASUS to release a new version of the Eee, only this time with touch screen and no touch pad so that it is about the right width to fit in a pocket, with a USB slave socket and software to automatically sync with MS Outlook Contacts, Diary and E-mail, as well as say 2 x No. standard USB 2.0 sockets and a PCMCIA socket so that we can chose which devices to add on to it.

I for one would then not hesitate to go out and by one. - ASUS are so close to what I need with the Eee but not quite there with their present offering.
Regards
ExPsionMan

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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2008-02-14 4:14 AM
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My Sig fits in my jacket pocket and it had a 5" screen with a lot of wasted space arround it...

I agree with the keyboard. Just thought it was an intresting device that I hadn't seen before... Somthing like that with a proper keyboard wouldn't be to far from requirements.

Your correct re the picture book... was having a look and it's 6" wide (was a while back I saw one and only briefly..

John
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nicmalone Page Icon Posted 2008-02-14 5:55 AM
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The Asus EeePC is worth a look. Not only is it the size of a slim hardback novel but you can easily install Windows XP on it (and even Mac OSX via some dodgy hacked bittorrent versions of the Intel compatible Apple OS). Only £199 too!


PS. What's happening with the HPC Factor team? - no updates for a month on the home page. I hope all is okay in HPC Factor Towers

Edited by nicmalone 2008-02-14 5:58 AM
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greg_graham Page Icon Posted 2008-02-14 12:57 PM
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Having owned and used Psion (Series 5 and Series 7), Sharp Zarus, Palms (I keep trying them, but the screens are just too small and the foldup keyboards flake out) and HP PDAs (200LX and now Jornada 720), I've come to the conclusion that there is no perfect device.

No PDA can really replace your laptop or dektop PC. We have to accept the fact that touch typists, video editors, CAD users and software developers probably won't be satisfied with any pocket-size device. These folks need real laptops to be happy mobile users. And I doubt that anybody can get by without a PC as well.

But, once you are willing to compromise a bit, these pocket-size stripped-down devices such as the Series 5/5mx and Jornada 720 are really useful, especially if you travel on business regularly.

The small clamshell format provides a screen that is wide enough to read and a keyboard of useable size. Although I'm new to the Jornada 720, it has proven to have resonable OFFICE compatibility (just save all your documents in OFFICE 97 formats) and I'm confident enough now with it that I can take the 720 on even week-long business trips. A Wi-Fi card and dial-up (as a last resort) for email; thanks to a 4 GB CF card I can load it up with vital documents and project work; some reference PDFs are viewable with HP Factor's Reader; I take along some music and podcasts for entertainment; use KSE's fax software to get hard copy at hotels, and the J720 still is a 1-pound device with a reasonable battery life.

The AC adapter, phone cable, modem tester, spare battery pack, Sandisk card reader, noise-reduction headphones, and an FM transmitter for listening to recorded directions or podcasts when driving make up the rest of my travel kit. All that gear weights about another pound, but that is the same or less than the laptop versions. As soon as I can find a VGA card, I'll add one for presentations.

So, a long answer to the question -- YES, I would buy a new clamshell type device. For now, I bought a spare J720 just in case.

I think people get disappointed when they compare these miniature devices to laptops and think that they cost too much or don't do enough. This is what killed the Palm Foleo; I was registered on the Palm website to buy one. The Foleo and a Treo would have been a killer portable office. BUt the reaction from people just wanted a cheap laptop, and who do not have the same need for mobility, killed the product.
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ZSX Page Icon Posted 2008-02-14 1:34 PM
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I have both a Palmax PD1000 (I posted about it in Off Topic previously but can't find it now) running Windows 98 Gold, and a MobilePro 900c with cmonex's ROM, both of which are broadly similar in age and also in size. The Palmax runs more programs than the MobilePro, but if I am grabbing one device to head out the door, it is the MobilePro, simply because it does what I need it to do, faster and for longer. After waiting for the Palmax to boot up, I have so little battery life left I can barely do anything productive with it.

Clearly there is a market for small full-powered devices, and the technology has improved considerably, but it just isn't quite there yet. That said, the Fujitsu U810 is available now, is smaller than an EeePC, comes in at under $1000, and is available outside of Korea too! Here is a pic of a U810 stacked on an EeePC and a Vaio TZ.

Side note: I wish I were Jenn from Pocketables.net - she always seems to have the cool toys.

Edit: Correction! The Palmax is smaller than the MobilePro 900. It was pretty amazing for its time (even now) but stymied by the horrible battery life which is what eventually killed it.

Edited by ZSX 2008-02-14 2:32 PM
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ZSX Page Icon Posted 2008-02-14 2:56 PM
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ZSX - 2008-02-14 6:34 PM

Edit: Correction! The Palmax is smaller than the MobilePro 900. It was pretty amazing for its time (even now) but stymied by the horrible battery life which is what eventually killed it.


Here's the proof (apologies for my pink bedspread!) The Palmax is black while the MobilePro is grey.


Of course, one thing I have always wondered is why there aren't more XPe (XP embedded) devices out there. Provided the relevant software libraries are present, there is no reason why any software designed for XP can't run on an XPe system. It would avoid the "my such-and-such software won't run on CE" problem, and you'd theoretically have the advantages of an embedded system.
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primaz Page Icon Posted 2008-02-14 5:19 PM
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For me I thought the Psion 5mx was one of the best ergonomic, easy to carry in a jacket pocket, and had one of the best keyboards ever. I switched to the Jornada 728 mainly due to it having the MS suite built in as it seemed there were occasional issues with Psion keeping up with software updates.

While a conventional clamshell like the Psion or Jornada updated to run windows for me would easily be my primary mobile computer, here is a unique design that I would buy right now. Unfortunately this is the second generation of their first 9000 model which never was sold outside of Korea but whom knows if they might change their mind about this product? It is about 4.25" wide just barely jacket size but still jacket size and the unique trifold desing provides a keyboard that is so easy to type. Only down side would be the Psion and Jornada type clamshells are easier to use when standing possibly?

http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-sph-p9200-ultra-umpc-details-break...


Edited by primaz 2008-02-14 5:27 PM




(Samsung_SPG-P9200_1.jpg)



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papaken Page Icon Posted 2008-02-18 12:55 PM
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Yes, UMPCs are not for everyone. CAD applications, for example, can be trying, though there is a palmtop version for those who can use it.

As far as battery life, I think that will soon cease to be an issue, even for laptops:
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908...
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ZSX Page Icon Posted 2008-02-19 11:14 AM
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There you go, HP's new UMPC 2133.



Courtesy of Engadget:

  • 8.9-inch 1366 x 766 (WXGA) display

  • ExpressCard/54 slot

  • Wireless LAN

  • QWERTY (95% of full)

  • integrated webcam

  • optional SSD

  • 2.5-pound anodized aluminum

  • runs Vista or Linux


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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2008-02-19 11:22 AM
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It's very nice...

...but I don't think it's going to fit in a pocket at it's size or weight so isn't really a 5mx / 720 replacement (or am I missing somthing)

John
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