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sat nav with ce 5 -DEAD-

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clever dicky
clever dicky Page Icon Posted 2008-10-13 4:13 AM
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Hi, first post !

hello, really joined specially to ask for help. I have looked at other forums for this topic but few seem to be as 'on the ball'.

I have an old (+ 18 months) pnd or sat nav that runs ce 5. I'm familiar with windows products and have been for some years since the days of dos, but this mobile os seems to have me licked. Prob due to the particular set-up and hardware.
I was hoping I get get the thing to boot into a windows like front end and have the option to run different apps and more importantly replace the sat nav software as I've seen done with other pnds.
However stupidly not knowing the hardware and after connecting with a reg hack for ce trying numerous different tweaks and files for 'other' sat navs I've finally bricked it and now its stuck on a loading / start up picture.
I guess there must be a way of restoring it as the initial programming from factory but now its locked I cant get it to access sd card or connect with active sync or do anything. I do have the original cd and even had a back up of the sd card but nothing I've done works.
The sat nav is the cheaper one Michelin did and the potential is good but now its the challenge of turning it into something useful.
Details below. Many thanks for any help.

It is a Michelin x-960
h**p://gps.viamichelin.co.uk/viamichelin/gbr/GPS/htm/nav/x960-newedition-specifications.htm

Processor: Samsung 300 MHz

Memory: 64 MB RAM/ 128 MB ROM

Operating system: Windows CE.net 5.0

GPS: Integrated GPS receiver (SiRF Star III Technology)
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2008-10-13 5:22 AM
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I take it you have tried a full hard re-set. most satnav units with CE 5.0 actually load everything from rom including registry after a hard re-set.

The only other option is it may be you have removed a file that resides on the small flash disk in the internal memory. Maybe some sort of shell file the unit looks for to start the satnav. In a few ce5.0 satnavs I have seen it is PNAShell.

Take it you have tried to gain access to unit via usb over activesync? Just wondered as I did similar to my R66 unit and was still able to access via activesync and put the pnashell back.

The other option I can think of just now is maybe see if there is a software upgrade. In some satnavs you can just open the manufacturesrs sync software and plug the SD into the computer. If there is a software update it will usually pop it on the card and when you re-set the unit it will autorun the update (maybe replace a file you have deleted). Alternatively some updates will be an exe that will run on PC and interface with the device over USB but will actually flash it rather than sync to it.

Here is a patch that seems to work in that way. Worth a try (this patch is for X960 New edition so be sure that is what you have. If not follow my link and just fill in the drop down boxes for correct device. http://viamichelin-uk.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/viamichelin_uk.cfg/php/e...

Edited by mr-mac 2008-10-13 5:25 AM
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clever dicky
clever dicky Page Icon Posted 2008-10-13 5:43 AM
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Hi Thanks for your help. I do know I deleted certain 'links' or more accurately lines in the start folder pointing to possibly said file. What I was trying to do is delete the reference to the sat nav part which just kept starting up. I had already tried editing the file but didn't work, so I went about cutting a line at a time . I presumed the os would then be left in the background but I guess with out a start file or link to load it, its now stuck in oblivion.
I cant even connect any more - it just sits there. I have tried a hard reset (pin in hole) but nothing. Even if i load something on the sdcard, I don't know how I can get it to load or boot from there.
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2008-10-13 6:04 AM
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Ah often the CE5 satnavs run an alternative shell to explorer rather than on top of it.

I have a PNAshell.exe file and all it does is start explorer. If you get it running again then to get CE desktop you just need to replace the current shell file (well rename it as you will still want it) and pop in this new one in the same location. This would then make it start the windows desktop.

Let me know how you get on with attempts to get it working. If hard re-set is no good I reckon the update flash image download I linked has a good chance of working.

John
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clever dicky
clever dicky Page Icon Posted 2008-10-13 8:06 AM
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thanks, downloaded the patch and about to try on the 'nav I by chance bought with me to work. Sadly though no cd so will have to try at home tonight.
If there's anything in the meantime ??
Funny the reason I posted here on the ce section was I believed the core problem was the os or as you say the shell exe, so are you saying even though its win ce V.5 its actually a patched version and without the correct win shell it just cant be re loaded or rebooted fron a sd card file or similar. As it is at the mo' it cant even be synced, so I dont know what I can load to it even with the prog cd + patch. Unless thats it.?
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2008-10-13 8:58 AM
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No IIRC microsoft made a license for CE5, with a platform builder, specifically for PNA devices. These devices are meant to be satnav only so have no need for access to the std ceshell (which is likely why it doesn't call the shell and calls a specific PNAshell). The shell can be started but you need to change the current shell with a new file that starts the explorer shell instead.

Getting access to activesync may not be an issue. When I did my R66 patch of rom it didn't switch the unit it on. You plugged it into USB and the program re-flashed the rom via usb (but I had to follow specific instructions). Just like how I was able to re-flash a goosed DVD writer when it was non functional - The usb flash utility may not need the unit powered up and may access the unit in a totally diffrent way. Can't be 100% sure that is the way this will work but surely worth a try.

I am surprised a hard re-set doesn't sort it as it shoudl reload the windows directory, and registry from fresh. (though if no way to hard re-set you could try letting the batteries run down totally to make it re-set).

Good luck

John

Edited by mr-mac 2008-10-13 9:00 AM
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CAuser Page Icon Posted 2008-10-13 10:37 AM
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Hard reset requires removal both main battery and backup battery (if any). Does pressing the button in the hole equals hard reset? It sounds like a soft reset, at least for all CE devices I have played.

Edited by CAuser 2008-10-13 10:49 AM
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2008-10-13 11:16 AM
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Used to mean that but on my CE5 PNA no changes to windows dir or registry survive after popping reset switch (seems to reload from scratch - this seems to be the case with a fair few CE5 PNA's).

In my case I replaced the PNAshell which is on a flashdisk area that doesn't get wiped on re-set so I am only guessing but maybe the file on the flash disk was removed or it is more rare that his changes don't get wiped.

PNA devices likely don't have a backup battery if the battery goes flat it reloads like a re-set.

The above is the reason I think a rom update may be a good idea as hopefully it may get access the device without explorer running and re-flash rom and with any luck re-set up directory structure flash drive etc. as factory default.

John
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clever dicky
clever dicky Page Icon Posted 2008-10-13 4:43 PM
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Hi Guys been playing and searching but cant find damned CD now. I've tinkered with this sat nav so many places so long got a feeling I've left it somewhere -except here!
What I have on my pc is the last update software I download and an old prog that wont run (reinstalled xp a while back). I've tried sticking the complete update on the card but I think with out reinstalling the main prog off the cd again I've had it. I do still have the serial / registration number so may try and get a copy (it seems its not for download anywhere).
Aside from trying the patch and geting it working I dont realy have an interest in puting vm back on there. Be much happier with Igo8 or TT.
Is there a wince prog like the reg edit that can hook up via usb as was mentioned and reflash to win directly ??

cheers.
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clever dicky
clever dicky Page Icon Posted 2008-10-13 4:45 PM
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By the way just wanted to say thanks for suggestion of battery. Took the cover off and pulled the plug on the battery. Sadly made no difference and still stuck on the load/ boot ad picture.
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2008-10-13 5:06 PM
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Only last option in case there was a battery backup.... try hitting the reset pin and while holding it down flick the power switch back and forward the release re-set pin. Worth a try as some devices use this to hard re-set.

Cheers

John
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clever dicky
clever dicky Page Icon Posted 2008-10-22 4:59 PM
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Right Guys, an girls ?,

Thanks for previous advice but need some thinking caps on again please.
First off emaild michellin and not even a reply never mind advice from the to**ers.

I found my original CD/dvd and have my reg /activation no's. When I hook up s'nav and run install it asks to connect to device/ and decideds its not connected. This is while device is stuck on boot screen/logo. Then installation stops and goes no further. It wont install on to my pc without device connected. (presumably working)
Second the patch gets as far as checking for original software and even with proper cd in tray, it cant find it. Guess its looking for installed prog.
So I dont no what elese to do. I cant get the s'nav to do anything (bricked).
Wondering if any way to load on to sdcard, then try install again. but just cannot see how can access s'nav and replace files while its dead?

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clever dicky
clever dicky Page Icon Posted 2008-11-06 6:44 AM
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Update.
After all this time I have 'correctly' reset my pna. It now works again but demo only.
Damned if I didn't do it right. You have to hold the pwr button continuously after pressing reset pin. At least 30 seconds before it offers a reset option.
Unfortunately files are missing off sd card now and software from main cd still wont install. I think MS active sync still wants to take over ???

Rather than go back to VM which was horrible anyway, I'd like to still make more use of this device and have the option of different progs like I've seen done for devices like navigo.
Is there a good recommend alternative satnav (i like look of Igo8) tha will work and how do I go about it.
Also if needed where can I get a copy of the PNAshell.exe
cheers
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2008-11-06 8:36 AM
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As mentioned I have a PNAshell that will start up CE shell on soft re-set. PM me your email address and I will send with instructions.

If you want to use an alternative shell with links to apps etc. then look through some of the satnav hacking websites and look at some of the programs people have produced to replace the shell they are often provided with all the files for the apps etc. to go on the SD.

Igo8 is nice. but if you have a non standard resolution it can be a pain to make it work. I can make igo8 run on my R66 Maxi (in 320x320) but I have tried again and again to make a native resolution theme work on it and it always fails.

I like R66 8 but you will have to buy a map. (though I picked up a WM version Uk and Ireland on CD for £30). The maps are nice and clear, nav is accurate, it re-routes nicely if you miss turn and is great for multi-point trips. You can download a WM update installer for nothing and get a 15day free trial of the maps (seems to work nicely on diffrent resolutions and picks up GPS automatically). Anyway if you want details ask in PM.

Most satnav software will install through activesync. however, it will also install directly to SD card if you pop it in a card reader in PC. Try it and see as this will avoid any activesync issues etc.

John
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clever dicky
clever dicky Page Icon Posted 2008-11-06 10:01 AM
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Hi Have a pm sat in out box but it wont send. (cant even manage that right) Though I must add its not bloody obvious where the 'send' button is. What do I click on ??
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