Sci-Fi Discussion in TV and Movies

going back to torchwood; if you only want to devote a small amount of time to it make sure you spend that time watching the mini-series "children of the earth". by far the greatest story arc they've put together for that show. as for the new doctor, i was a little uneasy after watching the first look but i'm ok with him now. still undecided on the new TARDIS i just purchased the pass from itunes so i have a little catching up to do. i'm very glad it's back on though

I fundimentally digagree, you're ascribing to humans the idea that they're nothing more than the sum of their programming, an automaton, a drone. I can see where you're coming from now that you have given other examples, but like you said, those situatios imposed impossible constraints and it becomes survival vs. living.

As the writers highlight though, human beings don't particuarly like to be constained artificially and for many - not all - there will be a point where they have to choose to live instead of exist. Just look at the choices of cancer patients, some seek to extend their life as much as possible with treatment that makes them unwell while others stop treatment or refuse it and cover as much as they can in the time they have.

The new clone in Moon knows that he'll probably be dead in 3 years anyway so he has little to lose and everything to gain in terms of hurtings those complcit in his stuation and in living somewhat in that time. I think that is a compelling argumemt for not staying.

If the clone concept in Moon had been to create an drone figure, why go to the lengths of programming it with a back story - the clones in SW know that they're clones and presumably have programmed loyalty, no such effort to dehumanise or genetically disempower the clones from moon was evident.

If they were robotic and you do want to start applying Asimof's rules to them, then are they really human?

Well I am not talking about what people *like* to do. Rather I am talking about their responsibilities. My point is that clones owe their creators for giving them life, and the least they can do is serve their creators as intended. Now I'm not saying they should do whatever they're asked to; it would be the creator's responsibility to treat their clones fairly.

As you may have guessed, I see this relationship as similar to those of parents or foster parents to children. Ok maybe without the "love" Even if my parents lie to me to get me to do some things, I would still do them provided that they're not against me.

Cancer patients need to pay their bills too before they go off to do whatever they want. And if they had a contract to work, they'd still need to complete it, and won't be excused by their terminal illness. They may have nothing to lose and everything to gain, selfishly speaking, but that does not justify screwing others, and I wouldn't do that if I was in the situation.

The clones in Moon are given the memory of a trained professional I assume so they don't need to teach every clone how to count. I also assume that they simply cannot select which part of the memory to include. So they basically copied the entire memory of a real worker (up to the point he was on the way to the moon). It's not like the "backstory" was created and programmed into the clone, nor were any of the video messages acted out by actors. It was the real story of the original worker and those were real videos from the real wife (I mean in the movie).

So to answer your question, it's just a technical limitation of what the company can do. The alternative is to tell the clones everything as they are revived, but as the story shows at the end, the clones will betray them if told the truth. I simply don't understand why that is the case.

Sounds like that clone was an aberrancy. I mean, how many times did other clones do as they were intended without questioning their existance. Seems to me that if I were created with a lifetime of memories, and if I only had 3 years left to live, it would be kinder to just keep me in the darkness.

Still I'd rather have 3 years than none. I mean my parents gave me life, and I have accepted the fact that Iwill only live less than a century, but I don't hold any animosity towards my parents. I'm grateful to live the years I have. I thik a clone would be grateful to have at least 3 years of life rather than none.

The only mistake it sounds like they made is that they should have given him a female clone to cohabitate with...

Clone + Clone = Clone? Now there's an undeveloped social issue.

I think Takwu that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue. I can't see a clone as something based upon Asimof's theory, it's either human and has free will or it's a creation in human likeness that isn't sentient, it's robotic.

What you're advocating is a form of voluntary slavery, you create slaves and they have no free will or desire to be anything other than that. It's that sort of oppression that Empires have been formed on, and empires have fallen for. The same concept rings true through other SciFi, Terminator and the idea of a self aware machine, the matrix in its prequel animated shorts and the revolt there of the enslaved robotic computer systems. They weren't supposed to want to do anything other than what they were designed to do, they weren't even supposed to want, yet they did.

Takwu, Are you really serious? This whole time I have abstained from your discussion because I thought you were kidding and just giving C:Amie a hard time.

Giving me a hard time? What a terrible thing to do; I'm not a British politician

I'm surprised we don't have a thread on the UK election yet...

Ahh, the Matrix, how can I forget to mention that. Yes, all humans in the Matrix (and some who got out) are created and raised by the machine. Maybe I haven't mentioned it in these forums, but I'm the kind of person that would live happily inside the Matrix, even if I know the truth. Or I should say especially if I know the truth. How can you say no to free food for life? And did you see what they ate in the real world? The big difference tho, is that the machines (in Matrix and Terminator) are not the human race, and so it is war! (sarcasm)

Just a bit of correction here. You mentioned "voluntary slavery", but I think by definition that is an oxymoron. If you volunteered, you're not a slave. Slavery implies that the slave is forced to do something *against* their will. So I'm not suggesting the clones to "willingly go against their will", but rather I'm questioning why they will not do it.

I am not suggesting the clones have no free will either. Instead I'm saying they have responsibility to do their job. Everyone in a society has various responsibilities to others. You cannot just run away from them in the name of "free will". Freedom, as far as I understand it, is only good when it doesn't interfere with another person's freedom (and some extend it to nature in general). If everyone does whatever they want with no regards to others, we have no civilization. And that's what it felt like at the end of Moon.

District 9 was awesome, they could not have picked a better main character for that part, you'll see why in the end....

I saw Iron Man II last weekend. It was OK, not as good as the first. I guess it doesn't help that I can't stand Robert Downy Jr. He can play himself quite well. That is all he can really do. I was surprised when I watched the first Iron Man movie, I thought he was a lot better in that one.


I almost forgot to tell you that Scarlett Johansson stole the show!!!!! She was awesome!!! If there was one reason to see the movie, she is it!

Edited by Yoldering 2010-05-12 6:18 PM

Ah that's nice to know. Yeah I saw some stills of black widow. Will see the movie tomorrow!

My parents came out to babysit the little one Saturday because it was my birthday...

To my surprise, my wife took me out on a date to dinner and a movie...

We went and saw Inception. I think it was the best movie I have seen in years... It really makes you think.

Talk about a mind bender! Has anyone here seen it yet? Can't really talk too much about it because you just have to see it!

Edited by Yoldering 2010-08-02 3:09 PM

Saw it, enjoyed it, thought his wife was crazy early on. Reminded me of mine...that's how I knew.

BIG NEWS for Star Wars fans!!!... All six movies are going to be converted to 3D format beginning 2012 http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i677c428...
Lets just hope Rich is wrong about the end of the world thing... I don't think they will all be released by 12/12/2012...

I wonder how they will do that since you really need a special camera with offset lenses to film 3d with to begin....