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London Events

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Wessex_nut Page Icon Posted 2005-07-08 7:11 AM
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I would like to add my comments and I hope not to tread on anyones toes.
It is a shock to both my father and myself, because we both do go to London on occasions, I sometimes dart about between Zone 1 to 6, my father mainly stays in Zone 1.

Where one of the incidents happen, the company my father works for has their office nearby to Russell sqaure tube station and not too far from the bus blast either. I should be lucky that he was out the day before it happened (Talk about close). We haven't heard much from the London office yet... or I haven't either.

We have been actively talking about this in the Trainz Railroad Simulator 2004 forum and hentis (a certain user) has got the best quote:

hentis

What difference 24 hours make?

A day ago when I wrote a post about how London & the rest of the UK were shining and over the moon in getting the Olympics for 2012 ..... 24 hours on London is reeling from the biggest terrorist attack on Britains shores since Lockerbie.

My deeepest condolances to all the loved ones of the people that died or have been affected in some way, at this cowardly attack.

This wont shut us down
This wont slow us down
This wont stop us.
We wont hide
You cannot beat us...
We will shine through.
We are united in our strength against these cowards.

We are English and we showed our strength and Guile during the Second world war..... The terrorists are nothing but cowards!!!! They will never win!!!
We will prevail all the time!

Hentis

At the time, Hentis was also referecing the Olympic win, 24 hours later, we are morning the lost of 37 passangers! 48 hours, we are morning the lost of 50 passangers. Sometimes, it just doesn't seem fair.
More on our more open discussion and probably my inappropiate question that puzzled me can be found here: http://forums.auran.com/TRS2004/forum/showthread.php?s=197a459ae70cb7ec36d330e5ad58d440&threadid=89758&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

I don't expect to see the end of this, even as I write this, the death toll is now 50 (maybe more).
As I write this, I am listening to the news on a local radio station (Wave 105 - www.wave105.com).

The recovory for bodies on the tube is going to be very difficault, as mentioned, because the tube trains are tiny compared to mainline trains. The tunnels on all except the Extended Jubliee Line (JLE) are bored at 12ft diameter, as specified by London Transport during the big tube banaza in the 1930s. The standarisation could also come from earlier companies. The trains tend to be around 15.92 to 17m in length and around 2.5m to 2.6m in width. Between the train and the tunnel will be an air gap of around 15 - 30 cm, on conrners, the air gap will be soo tight, that it may not be possible to get rescuers in and out. Having said that, the resucers did a great job when it came to Moorgate!
The bus bloggles me, because that is in the open, yet they are saying that the rescue operation are slow, perhaps it is because the top deck has collapsted onto the bottom deck at the back?

I hope this also gives everyone some (useless, maybe useful information) to some things to do with the rescue operations. I only happen to know this stuff, as I modelled tube trains for Rail 3D (another sim) and Trainz and I had to know the basic dimentions.
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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2005-07-08 8:42 AM
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I think that the speed of the clear up is not one of it being more difficult to clear up the bus site, but through the fact that there is debris scattered over a large area. This needs to be painstakingly combed through from the outside in to pick up shrapnel, and hopefully parts of the original explosive that could be lodged in trees, grass, tarmac, BMA House, in around, on and under the other cars that are in the area.
They can't just drive the bus away as people moving into the zone would bring in contaminants, damage or disturb the landing points of material.
Forensic officers need to go through it all, and in their own time.

There are also suggestions from the print press that there may still be bodies, or remains in and around the bus. If that is true, in the interests of decency these have to be considered as well.

As you say, the tube system can be very confined in places, as someone who has been known to commute mainline / underground combinations I can attest to that. They can gain access to the cars from either direct of the tunnel, and they will probably uncouple the head and tail cars (car three was hit on the kings cross one for example) and get directly to the blast scene that way - again once it has been cleared forensically.
Assuming that the tunnel doesn't collapse first...
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Wessex_nut Page Icon Posted 2005-07-08 9:46 AM
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C:Amie - 2005-07-08 1:42 PM

As you say, the tube system can be very confined in places, as someone who has been known to commute mainline / underground combinations I can attest to that. They can gain access to the cars from either direct of the tunnel, and they will probably uncouple the head and tail cars (car three was hit on the kings cross one for example) and get directly to the blast scene that way - again once it has been cleared forensically.
Assuming that the tunnel doesn't collapse first...


The tunnel has already partially collapsed, which probably isn't supprising for iron segments from the 1910's. For reference purposes, I thought I would include a description of the trains used on the Piccadilly line

WARNING!!! LENGTHY AND TECHNICAL DESCRIPTION AHEAD!
description of the trains
The trains are of 1973 Tube Stock (entered service in 1975 instead. It was aticipiated that they would enter service in 1973 for the Heathrow extension). They have aluminum bodies and conventiaul DC traction gear, one majour thing they had that wasn't in common with other stocks is that instead of having seperate camshafts for braking and motoring, they both were combined into one larger unit. (Camshafts use a series of contacts to increase the power given to the motor, also to reduce the power to the motors. This is because the motors cannot accept the line voltage at startup).

They were recently refurbished at Bombardier at Doncaster, previously was owned by British Rail Engineering Ltd, who was the orignal contractor for refurbishment work, this is because after the Kings Cross file of 1987, the trains were found to have unsuitable interiors, the wooden flooring and the seats would burn vigiously and give off toxic fumes. During the refurbishment (after several prototypes), the seating in all cars was totally altered, the bay seating was done away with, leaving longitude seating through the carriages, increasing the usable space, especially during PIXC (Passangers In eXcess Capacity - Strategic Rail Authority term) or "crush load conditions". New flooring was fitted throughout the car, which emitted low emissions, but still burned. This was more controllable however, the seats were re-placed and given a different pattern to them, this is suppose to be fireproof, or to the manufactures. Majour technical upgrades were taken.

The couplings would cause a majour problem, most tube stock run as 3 car trains, except the 1992 stock and the sub-surface stock (A, C, D stocks), the usual formation is in this order;

    [li]Driving Motor, fitted with a driving cab and motors on all axles of the bogies (otherwise known as the DM)
    [li]Trailer, but is often fitted with compressors and no motors (T)
    [li]Uncoupling Non-Driving Motor with motors and traction equipment. These also have a small shunting cabnet for shunting purposes (UNDM or "Undun"

The stocks prior to the 73 stocks are formed into trains with a DM-T-UNDM+UNDM-T-DM. On the Bakerloo 1972 stock, one half is the same, but the other half is a DM-T-T-DM. 1967 stock on the Victoria line has a DM-T-T-DM+DM-T-T-DM and the 1992 Central line stock is VERY complicated! Because a service train is 8 cars long, each car was made up into 4 units, 2 units with cabs and 2 units with no cabs, the cars are descibed as follows (letter signifies the car designitioj)[list=A]
[li]Driving motor car with traction equipment, shoes and motors
[li]Uncoupling driving motor with no shoes, or traction equipment, but does have compressors and a shunting cabnet
[li]As B but with shoes and traction equipment, no compressor
[li]As B but with de-icing equipment

I won't go into formations, because they are far too complicated. Basically, every unit has a B or D car, it doesn't matter what car is on the other end.

Between the cars of every unit, each car is coupled by a semi-perminate or perminate bar coupling, this is because the individual cars are not meant to be spit anywhere outside the depot. Any attempt to rescue the 1973 stock is going to become very difficault because of this, you have to physically break the coupling. I believe the couplings are made of either thick steel or iron, most likely the latter. The other 3 cars can escape safely, because they can be driven backwards. All you have to do is disengauge the "Wedgelock" coupling, break the pneumatic connections and the electrical contacts and you are fit to drive backwards (providing you are authorized by the controller and the police to move the other 3 cars). So, I do think the resuce operation is going to be more difficault than the bus, although with the bus, you could get a load of officers to conduct a finger tip search, if possible (in theroy).

Sorry about that, I thought the descirption would be useful for most who are interested, as many need to know the saftey features, how it can and cannot be resuced and how difficault it would be on LU. I am a train enthusiast............. I withdraw what I was going to add to that.
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