Compaq C Series Battery Solution

Firstly let me say that if moderators decide to flag this as in the wrong group (the C Series is a CE 2 device) I would quite understand if it were shifted to the other forum. But in that case then my previous post might well be a candidate for the same thing.

I have been intrigued by the C Series, as I seem to be with many of these antiques... and I do understand all the movement towards the chinese netbooks. But having had a HTC (Athena) T-Mobile Ameo for a few years now (both on and off wifi and 3G), and only lately disovered the enigmatic HTC Shift (running Win 7 ultimate no less, albeit with some huffing and puffing as the 800Mhz processor tries hard to keep up with Win 7) I personally would not opt for web work with what amounts to another Ameo.
I was lucky enough to acquire an Elonex Mini Note for very (seriously) little money recently (the keyboard had had a drink of coffee or maybe Horlicks, but it had the drink it whilst it was switched off) in the box and complete. Now that chugs along nicely in XP and is, as far as I can tell, a better alternative. I need to use an external USB keyboard of course, or the on-screen one in XP, which I never knew about until this issue arose. But it is very useful when I have to resort to the most effective way of getting software on to these old crocks... using Activesync of course.

One thing which really stumped me whilst looking at the C series has been the NiMH battery units. These were mandatory for the colour models in the C Series range. Outside the USA and (oddly enough) Germany) they don't exist. In those two places (after much Googling) the cost of just one unit far outweighed the advantage.
Mono C Series models, of which I have yet to see one, apparently used two commonplace AA cells, the manual says.
Now I was involved, even longer ago than these C Series were on sale, with the very first hand-held pc bar-none... the DIP Professional... later to become the Atari Portfolio. That ran in TEXT... not even mono... as so many of them did then. It runs a form of DOS, which has a very close relationship with MSDOS. The point here, is that it ran on THREE of these AA cells. Granted they lasted a long time, but I'd like to know how long the C series Mono units ran with two.

Notwithstanding all of this, I have worked on the problem of the NiMH cells for the C Series for a while. I managed to get hold of two, more or less dead examples. from units which had literally been opened once and then put away... for about 30 years. The units work fine of course. The mains unit equally so. But these cells are showing their age, and of course belying their appearance.

To my un-ending chagrin, I never seemed to get the opportunity to learn electronics. I still try to do so now, at completely the wrong time of life.
But from what little I could piece together, I reckon I've found a solution to the problem by making my own... NiMH cells. It's not perfect, but it works.
It's also something a Radio Control enthusiast would have found very a simple matter... I learned... later.

As an aside, the only piece of software I have got the C Series to deign to install and run so far is the old Hum MP3 player, from good old HPC Factor.

Anyone interested please take a look here... <code> http://lnk.nu/homepage.ntlworld.com/1v9v.htm </code>

QF 07/12/11

Hi QF;

The monochrome C-Series will run about 12-15 hours on a pair of AA alkaline batteries, about standard for any monochome WinCE 2.0 computer with 8 megs of RAM.

Aslo, did you know that the standard Ni-Mh battery pack that came with the colour version (and was also available for the monochrome version) is simply a metal sleve that fits over the two batteries? If you slip the sleve off the batteries, one of them has its cover taken off so as to contact the metal casing and they are soldered in the centre. A copper strip runs along the length allowing better contact between the battery without a casing and the metal sleve. There is also a bump in one end. This allows the battery pack to fit in the battery compartment only one way and also allows internal recharging.

It's a simple design used by several different H/PC vendors.

Rick

Thanks for the reply and the interest Rich.

I had a dismembered power cell, as well as these intact ones, to work with. So I had an idea about the disposition.

The copper cable has a mysterious (to me) tiny diode... or something of the sort... on the shoulder of the celluloid cable as it heads up to the three connectors.
Actually I found that all three tines were in use by the C series if you look at the cable, which does go up the side of the cell. The connection was made by it to the base of the first cell, and to the top of the second cell. But connecting those two in my article actually got the C Series going.

There's clearly some kind of an electrical return system in use (as in an interface perhaps), since the three tines also share some kind of a commonality... and which is why I thought that the tiny bump was a diode, but the middle tine would not get the C series working in any combination.
Of the three connectors I recall that two were bridged at the top, and then it appeared to lead across to the diode. The third was to the base of the first cell I think.
The dismembered cell is in the bin now, with the other two in serious peril of the same fate... once I get sick of them rattling around my desk top.
I'm not aware of any way that they could be revitalised. I've tried quite a few times during my investigations.

I realise that there has got to be something more to the whole connection than the simple circuit that I use... for example in order to get the C series amber charging LED to light, which it will not using my cell. And the charging seems to take forever, and then lasts for only about 30 minutes.

I suppose that the likelihood of anyone actually using one of these C Series now is probably as high as it would be of anyone using the Portfolio. And yet there are points of interest which still remain to be fully explored. Certainly I have never personally encountered an external spell checker on the J72x/820s.

There is a curious system in the control panel which calls itself "Flash Manager". There are three tabs. Database Backup, which you can see clearly is to organise regular backups. No problem there.
But the next tab is entitled "Pocket Asset Viewer" , which has sub-menus for Communication, Display, Fault, Identity, Memory, PC Card, Security, System, and Version.

The last tab is Administration. Which is evidently where those troublesome passwords are entered. But what is Pocket Asset Data, and more specifically the Asset Tag number within it?
It's as bad as the password process where I had to find the magic number.

The Asset Viewer has entries, most of which make sense... like the Version option which lists only Product Revision Level, Rom Date, Rom Revision, and OS Version.
But then there is a lengthy list of Peripheral Card Identity and Serial Numbers all the way up to 10.
Odd than anyone would want to register a PC Card on the computer in that way.
And there seems to be a sort of presumptive list of Error Codes, with a date and time entry for each... up to Error Code 5.

But why did Compaq discard it all?
There's nothing like it in the J820.

A lot of things on the system itself are almost direct copies of Jornada items... Contacts, Inbox, Pocket Word, Excel, and Powerpoint. But then we have Quicknotes, and Pocket Bizcalc, and this neat little Spell Checker.

The only other external software that I have managed to install and run, so far without hiccup, is Calc98 V5.3.

I'll trawl for a bit to maybe try and get a better circuit made for this cell and try to get it to participate in the C series charging cycle at least. And I am certainly going to try my hand with the shrinkwrapping that the RC folks use to make their cells. But I have to admit that we got a lot "bigger bang for the buck" all told, out of the old Jornada 820s, notwithstanding the fact that almost all of this C series equipment is virtually new.

Thank you for the information regarding the Mono C Series.
I appreciate the insight.
But aside from the obvious, were these very much different to the colour?

I tried to remember how long three AAA Duracells lasted me when I was working with the Portfolios, but in truth I don't recall now, it was such a long time ago... and needing new batteries was not something that happened much. If there was anything of a difference then perhaps it would be insofar as the Compaq mono C series would (I suspect) be running Compaq's mono version of the old IBM CGA adaptor... or maybe even EGA?
It would have to have something of the sort to run Windows CE.
I can recall running Windows 1 and then 2 on an IBM PC with a CGA adaptor, and an AT with EGA, and colour monitor.
And now I think of it HP had a competitor to Windows at the time... it's name had something to do with Waves...

I do recall that IBM's OS2 beat them all out of the field. I tried and tried during a demo to get that to crash, and couldn't. And then when we set it up running several virtual machines in real time, it blew us all away... and even then we couldn't get just one of the virtual machines to crash.
True multi-tasking, not cheating with time slicing, like Windows did/does.

Meanwhile the portfolio gave us that old DOS Prompt C>, which itself came from the even older CPM, upon which I started.

You will surely remember... we all had to dredge up the DOS command to alter the uninformative prompt to one which at least showed us which folder we were looking at... prompt$p$g
Then Copy Con:config.sys and the direct entries "country=044" "Files=20" "Buffers=20" followed by... aged grey matter stretches to it's limit... CTRL Z to close the file.
Then we had to go back and create an autoexec.bat with that prompt command in it, for when we inevitably had to re-boot and otherwise lost it.

Wow! I really am that old!

Time Flies Like An Arrow, But Fruit Flies Like A Banana.

QF ;-))

You’re right. There is what looks like a tiny diode on the back of the copper strip. I suspect it might be a thermistor to monitor heat build up and prevent overcharging.

The spell checker is one of the best things about the C-Series. It was made by CIC but never sold to the public. To my knowledge it was only ever seen in the C-Series ROM and on the CD that came with Hitachi H/PCs. It can do everything from spell check across most programs, look up words, word count and enter quick text/macros. Years ago I took it from an 810 ROM and put the parts on my MobilePro 700 – it worked great. I’ve since got hold of the rare Hitachi CD that has both the MIPS and SH3 versions of the program. These days I also use it on a Casio PA-2400. Too bad it doesn’t work on anything other than WinCE 2.0.

The asset software was used to “give system administrators the data needed to understand their inventory” according to the manual. The administration software “allows an administrator to control the administration password and asset tag number to that corporations can track the device as a capital asset.” The C-Series was clearly a business machine…

The main difference between the colour and monochrome versions was the thickness with the colour unit being much thicker. Battery power was also significantly less in the colour version – something along the line of about three hours.

Yes, I also remember the Portfolio. I never had one, but yes, I’m that old too.

Rick

Moved to Hardware Support

Fooled you, didn't I, QF?

You did fool me Ce Geek... it never occurred to me, and in fact I admit that I've never registered that category before in the forum list.

QF

Thanks for that Rich, and since we've been migrated to the Hardware section and you mentioned it, how on earth do you manage to use that PA-2400?

I picked one up on eBay, must have been late last year or early this. It was very cheap so I was not really expecting much. But when it arrived it was practically new and still boxed, and came complete with the AA battery adaptor and a (also still boxed) PSU.
I recall that I fired it up and tried to work with it, but I soon found out why there was a key combination to re-set the stylus entry... because the it lost the stylus focus far too often for me to persevere. And that flapping lid was a bit of a nuisance too. It went back in the box for another time. I had acquired some MobilePro 900's beforehand and they were still pending, so I passed on to them.

I have to admit to what appears to be HPC heresy, and state that although I found the MobilePro's to be very effective tools and clearly at the pinnacle of the hand held development, I just don't like them. Can't be the size because I do like J820s. Anyway they're all in a box in the basement. Three Cmonex'd 900s, one with a smashed screen (courtesy of the post orifice), and a 780 which I got purely to change that screen and never got around to it.
I read an article somewhere, probably here, about renewing the cells in the battery packs on 900s, and I do recall now that I was far more successful than with these C series.

QF 08/12/11

I’ve never rebuilt a C-Series battery pack, but I can’t see it being too hard. There’s not much to it, just a couple of Ni-Mh AA batteries (one with the skin stripped off), the copper strip/diode/thermistor that’s taped to the top battery and a steel cover. As long as the copper strip/diode/thermistor isn’t damaged it should just be a matter of adding the batteries and cover. Famous last words… although I have rebuilt MobilePro and Philips battery packs… (I think I’m going to pick up an extra set of Ni-Mh batteries and try it. I’ll let you know how it turns out.)

As for the PA-2400, I find it a delight to use. But then I used a Newton 2100 for years (vertical orientation instead of horizontal) so am used to writing on the screen for short memos. For longer text entry I connect it to an iBiz keyboard – it works great.

The flip cover is great, too. Like the screen cover on the Newton 2100, it protects but doesn’t get in the way. I’ve found the weakest part of any H/PC is the screen hinge. Once that goes it often takes the screen ribbon cable with it. You just can’t replacement parts anymore for a lot of them. I’ve currently got at least three dead MobilePro 700s and a Compaq C-Series 810 in a box because of hinge/ribbon cable death.

Rick

Opps, forgot to finish that last message…

With the PA-2400 not having a keyboard hinged to the screen, I figure it will last a lot longer than most other H/PCs.

Rick

Hi Richard, thanks for your post.

We used to have a similar problem with the DIP/Portfolio. The screen cable was another of these "celluloid covered circuit tracks" affairs and would eventually fatigue. At the time I thought it was simply bad design, with the cable having to pass through a narrow slot in a hinge bezel. But since then I've come across similar over-optimistic design flaws in other devices.

My own solution to the DIP/Portfolio issue when it inevitably happened to me was to replace the celluloid with a section cut from a the smaller of the two cables which (you will remember I'm sure ) connected MFM hard drives to their big controller cards. And being of a steady hand then, I managed to solder the links at both ends. The bezel with the slot had to go, but the Portfolio was none the worse for that. It was not an elegant solution, but it worked for a lot longer than the replacement cable from Atari.

I must have a bad PA-2400W unit to compliment my worsening eyesight. I had difficulty seeing the screen at all as I recall, and that "constantly losing the stylus focus" would have really annoyed me if I'd been forced to use the unit. As it was, it all went back into those very tidy boxes in which it arrived, and has since percolated further towards the back of the cupboard where I keep the old units that have failed or that I am not currently concerned with. LMK if yours dies on you and you are seriously anxious to replace it. I think Usedhandhelds had one in their last mailing too.

I admit that I was perhaps spoiled with my expectations of the tablet aspect of the PA-2400. Due perhaps entirely to my first real tablet experiences with a Toshiba m400 under Tablet XP, and HP TX2500 units with Vista Home... at least the one which did not eventually die (a la Acer 9920Gs) of heat stroke.
Both HP and Acer have been entirely cuplable to their discredit, in producing and continuing to market both those models, in the full and certain knowledge that they both suffered from a fatal heat dissipation problem which could not be fixed. There are three 9920Gs here in the white elephants graveyard in our basement still. Stripped of their twin hard drives and their memory. They are not even in the potentially viable category, although to a real solder junky I expect the big 20" screen units would be pretty useful.
Having said that, we have an HP G72 under Win 7 64bit here, which has been absolutely stellar in all departments.
Current Major computer manufacturers seem anxious to emulate 1st world governments, in that good stuff only gets through to the people by mistake.

If you come up with a design, preferably using these Duracells, which gets the batteries back into the C series "system" (as opposed to my crude method in which they are not), I'd appreciate being copied on it. There are (at the last census) three complete and boxed "new" C Series units here (all 20Mb), and one "loose" 8Mb. None of them have any problems with the screen thank heavens.

Spare parts are only viable for me if I can acquire units. I tried the orthodox routes for the J820 batteries and for the ram upgrades. Each time I came across a Ram upgrade offered for sale, it later turned out to be vapourware, and was really an out-of-date entry in a stocklist, for which of course no stock was actually held. I had bought a couple of J820s by this time from ordinary sellers who were just having a clearout. And just as I had hoped, one turned out to have the ram expansion fitted as well as arriving with the appropriate leather HP case.

The J820 batteries situation was a little better, but not much. In the end I managed to source three complete units (no psu etc, just the units) which were nevertheless working, in a job lot from a uk "computer breaker" on eBay. These were units which had definitely seen better days however. But that was only a matter of months ago.
Today I see them for sale on eBay (from sellers over the Atlantic) with amounts starting at £57 ($89.31 buy it now or make an offer) up to £192.04 ($300.91) for each of up to eight units.!!??
Now I like the J820, I really do. But I don't think I'd have liked one quite that much.

QF 11-12-11