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Clio NXT!

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Rocketman Page Icon Posted 2006-05-06 12:51 AM
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My main concern is the small amount of ram being planned for this device. There are some very resource hungry applications out there, especially with tabbed browsing. For the price and market they are going after, they shouldn't be low-balling the stats on the NXT. If you are going to try and sell a device, try to make something that will please SOMEONE and not a compromised design that will make virtually every educated, pespective buyer groumble. Additional ram will add very little to the manufacturing cost and will greatly enhance this device's chance in the marketplace.
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2006-05-06 8:43 AM
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hmmm yeah this RAM question is important. takwu can tell you. he has two 128 mb hpc's and one 64, and says the 128's are much faster for web browsing. i dont know if it is really the amount of RAM, we would need to confirm that.

i have only one hpc that has 128 mb, and it is indeed faster with web browsing than any of other my hpc's. i don't have such big problems with the sig3 (64 mb) as takwu has but the bsquare PHH (128 mb ram) still beats it easily.

also i tried the netbook pro (128 again) and it was amazingly fast with browsing.

another very important point about having 128 mb ram: ce.net is inherently a much more stable OS than hpc2000 and the older CE OS'es but the bsquare is rock solid and fast even when i have 10 windows&apps open and running, i just can't imagine it crashing just because i multitask heavily.

so i'm all for 128 mb...


price point... hey 600-700$ is ok. but 800-900-1000$, now that just sounds too steep!

dale joens, could you convince sowah about making a smaller hpc too? could be similar in size to the jornada 720!! you'd have a customer (me) for sure.
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2006-05-06 8:48 AM
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wallythacker - 2006-05-06 6:37 AM
Run Netfront 33 & ftxbrowser with open several windows and all your 64mb is used up and you have to juggle storage/ram settings. Open PW and maybe PE and your problems compound. cenet, WM5 and hpc2k can address 256mb so why not build that amount into the device? Ram is very cheap these days. 256mb would add pennies to the build cost.


did you experience this or just guessing from experiences with 32mb machines? i think only your SL4 has 64 and know for sure you never use that one (btw dont you want to sell it? i have a buyer... )

my j728's can run NF (3.0 though, i want java too) with as many tabs as NF allows for (the max is 5 ), and still have a lot of ram, opening a pocketword&excel on top of this is no problem at all, never need to juggle storage & ram settings. honestly thats sometimes a problem with my intermec, i have to adjust ram settings sometimes i really got accustomed to 64 mb devices before getting the intermec. but it's acceptable of course

and of course having 128 mb ram just rocks. 32 is usable, 64 is comfortable and 128 rocks.

Edited by cmonex 2006-05-06 8:50 AM
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ZSX Page Icon Posted 2006-05-06 10:58 AM
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wallythacker - 2006-05-06 4:29 AM
Having said that, hpc users are a pretty tight-fisted bunch, otherwise we'd all have a Sig III and the fancy Netbook Pro or whatever it's called.

I think we're all pretty tech savvy as well. We expect a *lot* of bang for the buck. If pdas ship with 256mb we expect the next-gen hpc to at least equal that. It's a given we expect wifi, USB, bluetooth, dual or triple slots and so on. And I personally won't pay more than $500 all in.
)


I couldn't agree with you more wallythacker!

And I would also like to add that it looks like many of us have both H/PCs and ultraportables/ subnotebooks (just by looking at the signatures) and therefore switch between them depending on the requirements.

Or you have a whole group who are really into vintage gear.

I think I personally fit into both these categories and, much as I love the H/PC form factor and functionality, if I were to buy another device at the $1000 price point, it would probably be a UMPC, and not a Clio. It just doesn't fit into any useability category that I can justify at that price. At $500 on the other hand...
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Dale Jones
Dale Jones Page Icon Posted 2006-05-06 2:31 PM
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My point is that if 64mb works (and the 32mb worked fine on my old Clio)
it works. I didn't have to play with the memory much at all.

Maybe you people do more at the same time than most of us.

I have a feeling you want an impossible product at an impossible price,
and you won't be happy until you get one.

I'll look up the Intermac. No, I've never used one.
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Rocketman Page Icon Posted 2006-05-06 4:32 PM
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The case for a HPC device to exist at all is mighty thin. In my mind, here is the case argument for the HPC:

-Small size (but some sub-notebooks are of similar size to the larger HPCs like the Netbook Pro, and some devices like the OQO and UMPC platform are actually smaller)
-Long battery life (but many of the sub-notebooks have extended length batteries that give 5-6 hours of use)
-Instant on/off (suspend and hibernate modes on notebooks aren't as fast, but are reasonable)
-In the field restoreability (I know many ways to do this with PCs, too)
-Lower support costs? (Don't make me laugh. It has taken me years to learn to deal with Windows CE's many issues, and I have 18+ years of experience with dozens of operating systems). To me, trying to support end-users on Windows CE would be an absolute nightmare. I wouldn't want to be the guy with the pager on this one.
-Lower initial purchase price? At $1000, one could buy several notebooks or desktops.

Present HPC companies are making the same mistakes as the first time around, pricing their devices about twice what even an enthusiast would pay, much less a TCO concious IT administrator. Even then, the devices that companies are developing are not the devices that people want. Low balling the hardware and high balling the price will get you very few customers indeed.
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2006-05-06 5:36 PM
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Dale Jones - 2006-05-06 8:31 PM

My point is that if 64mb works (and the 32mb worked fine on my old Clio)
it works. I didn't have to play with the memory much at all.

Maybe you people do more at the same time than most of us.


no, as i said 64mb is enough for every task, but 128 mb might really help with browsing speed. it would be so disappointing even for not so power users (to you too probably) if the clio would have problems with that in 2006.

of course maybe takwu's theory is not true and a 64mb unit can still be as amazingly fast with browsing as the netbook pro for example.
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2006-05-06 5:43 PM
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Rocketman - 2006-05-06 10:32 PM

The case for a HPC device to exist at all is mighty thin. In my mind, here is the case argument for the HPC:

-Small size (but some sub-notebooks are of similar size to the larger HPCs like the Netbook Pro, and some devices like the OQO and UMPC platform are actually smaller)
-Long battery life (but many of the sub-notebooks have extended length batteries that give 5-6 hours of use)
-Instant on/off (suspend and hibernate modes on notebooks aren't as fast, but are reasonable)
-In the field restoreability (I know many ways to do this with PCs, too)
-Lower support costs? (Don't make me laugh. It has taken me years to learn to deal with Windows CE's many issues, and I have 18+ years of experience with dozens of operating systems). To me, trying to support end-users on Windows CE would be an absolute nightmare. I wouldn't want to be the guy with the pager on this one.
-Lower initial purchase price? At $1000, one could buy several notebooks or desktops.

Present HPC companies are making the same mistakes as the first time around, pricing their devices about twice what even an enthusiast would pay, much less a TCO concious IT administrator. Even then, the devices that companies are developing are not the devices that people want. Low balling the hardware and high balling the price will get you very few customers indeed.


um, you're right with the individual points but wrong with the overall picture IMO.

the hpc user does not use the hpc as a laptop user uses the subnotebook. otherwise everyone would use a subnotebook.

as for the individual points... small size? can you show me a subnote that is as small as the jornada or sig3? nope.
this is reason No1 for me to use a hpc.

support, lol, i'm really sorry if it had taken you literally years to figure out CE. it took me one week. and i've never been a PC guru!! what's more i was really dumb with PC's just a couple of years ago. but CE is just so much more simple than the PC, has fewer and simpler issues to deal with, and so on. i wouldn't mind being the guy you mention.

battery life & instant on combined mean a lot. sure a subnotebook with a biig extended battery can run, say, 5 hours, and a hpc with the standard battery again 5 hours (and with the extended, 10 ), but instant on adds a LOT to battery runtime. just think about it: you can turn the hpc off easily when you're not actually working on it even if the pause is only for 1 min or so...

however you're ABSOLUTELY right about the price point
that's where the failure becomes inevitable.
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Dale Jones
Dale Jones Page Icon Posted 2006-05-06 6:55 PM
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Ease of use on Windows CE counts too. Sorry, but I really do think CE
is cheaper to maintain.

Have you ever noticed how much hospital equipment is Windows CE. It may not be what you are used to, but it is a very good OS.

I bought two games (well, one a game pack) for my Clio 1050 in all the time I've had it. I never felt it needed more. Never longed for more.

I do admit that after six years the browser is obsolete. But, six years in tech is a very, very long time.

CE has a place. It may not be for you, but for me it's just fine.

I run a business and don't care for all the anti-this and anti-that I have to buy for XP. Even with it all, somehow I cannot get automatic updates from Microsoft anymore. (Don't even try to help me because nobody
can figure out what's wrong.)

Anybody who buys a tiny XP computer faces the same problem with
viruses.

Their fragile little hard drives are something else to consider. Clio doesn't
have one of those. There are no moveable parts inside. It's a much tougher, more solid product.



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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2006-05-06 7:10 PM
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i dont really mind the virus problem, i never get any, but other than that you're exactly talking about what i meant just saying it more clearly.

automatic updates, hmm, i do have a few ideas but that'd be off topic
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wallythacker Page Icon Posted 2006-05-07 12:48 AM
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I'm a huge CE fan. In fact, with the modern CE hardware I don't see why someone hasn't written burning software (audio/video) and why there isn't pagewidth tube scanners (remember the Storm?) and more choice in quality portable full page printers.

(Eds note: maybe there is a ton of gear but I haven't read about any of it)

Monica, I have run out of ram enough using my SL4 to wish it had 128mb. I wish all my hpcs had 128mb but it's only a dream.

So you have a buyer hmmm? I may be interested in selling at the price I paid if I can get a Sig III at the price *you* paid

Edited by wallythacker 2006-05-07 12:50 AM
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2006-05-07 8:37 AM
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wallythacker - 2006-05-07 6:48 AM

I'm a huge CE fan. In fact, with the modern CE hardware I don't see why someone hasn't written burning software (audio/video) and why there isn't pagewidth tube scanners (remember the Storm?) and more choice in quality portable full page printers.

(Eds note: maybe there is a ton of gear but I haven't read about any of it)

Monica, I have run out of ram enough using my SL4 to wish it had 128mb. I wish all my hpcs had 128mb but it's only a dream.

So you have a buyer hmmm? I may be interested in selling at the price I paid if I can get a Sig III at the price *you* paid



there's actually a dvd writer software for CE 5 if i remember right.

SL4.. thats different, it has only one slot, so when you put the wifi card in, the 64mb wont be enough...

i'll send you a PM..
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Dale Jones
Dale Jones Page Icon Posted 2006-05-08 11:55 PM
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Note to all you laptop users out there.

I dropped my Clio 1050 for the second time in six years the other day.

This was a hard drop and not on the arm of the unit (that is very strong as it controls
the "swing-top" designed screen).

I admit I had to recalibrate the screen with my stylus, and snap the battery back in place. I lost no files and the computer works perfectly!

No damage to the unit either.
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Dale Jones
Dale Jones Page Icon Posted 2006-05-10 10:46 AM
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According to the specs listed on Data Evolution's web-site Clio NXT will have
64 mb SDRAM and 64 mb flash ROM. According to what I read SDRAM is
much faster and more expensive than DRAM or RAM.

Shouldn't this make a difference or are all the devices you are talking about with 128 mb memory SDRAM too?
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2006-05-10 12:56 PM
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i guess they are sdram too (dram is very old, isn't it... even the 1999 hpc's had sdram in many cases), and the quantity matters more in this case anyway.
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