Linux for Netbook Pro

I know most of the attention regarding Linux on HPC devices is focused on the Jornada 72x at the moment, but has anyone given thought to an independently developed distro for the Netbook Pro and/or NEC Mobile Pro 900(c)? These devices seem like much better candidates for a distro for a variety of reasons including:

-Faster processors
-More ram
-Higher resolution screens, making for a better X windowing environment.
-Flash memory, allowing the device to directly boot to Linux on startup.
-Expansion slots capable of holding both a Microdrive and Wifi card in the unit at the same time.

The Jornada 720 on the other hand doesn't have flash memory, requiring a user to boot into Win CE to load the OS. One has to pull the battery and backup battery after exiting Linux in order to return to Win CE. Win CE is hard reset in the process, requiring one to walk through all the initial system setup dialogs to get to the Linux bootloader. With flash memory, one could write the bootloader directly to the flash so that a device reboot would take on directly into Linux. It might also be possible to rewrite the existing boot loader in order to boot Linux from a memory card/micro drive and still have an option to boot into Win CE. Of course, Win CE would be hard reset every time you boot into it. With WM5, which uses flash exclusively for storage and ram only for program execution, it should be possible to have a true dual-boot HPC!

Another problem with the Jornada, is that is only has a type II PCMCIA and a type I CF card slot. Running linux from a CF card is less than ideal, as writes to the card will quickly result in bad blocks/fs corruption. This is particularly true if one has a paging file on the card (the paging file will be updated/changed quite frequently, resulting in excessive wear on the card). One can get around this by using a type II microdrive, which is essentially a very tiny hard drive, to store the OS and paging file, but the type II will only fit in the PCMCIA slot with an adapter, leaving the type I CF as the only slot available for Wifi, Bluetooth, etc. Microdrives don't suffer from the limited number of write cycles problem like flash cards do. The CF slot on the Jornada is located under a hinged metal door on the bottom of the unit. I know of no microdrives that will fit in this slot without modification. I know of only one bluetooth card that will fit (Socket Communications makes it) in this slot and no Wifi cards. So, if one uses a Microdrive, one is left without network connectivity.

The Netbook Pro on the other hand has a type 2 CF slot, a type 2 PCMCIA slot and a SD card slot, making it possible to run Linux off a Microdrive, as well as have a Wifi card and bluetooth card installed at the same time.

Additionally, we already know that Linux can be run on the Netbook Pro. Psion contracted out development of a Linux distro, but decided not to release it. This distro is "floating around" out there already. I have seen a few Netbook Pros sold on eBay with this distro preloaded. The Linux based Netbook Pros seem to have 64 MB of flash versus the normal NB Pro's 32, but in principle it should be possible.

So, what do people think about this idea?

where did you see the linux netbook pro's? i saw only one

My goal
Dual(tri) boot my Mobilepro 900 between WinCE 3.0, Win CE.NET, and linux at will without hassle.
(without hassle= once in linux mode I can boot/reboot/suspend/unsuspend easily, I accept having to backup/restore during the Wince->linux->Wince transition but would really like to avoid even that. (mostly a backup will be needed since Wince uses the RAM for permanent storage and linux will erase that))

What have I accomplished so far?
I ran CYACE on my Mobilepro 900 which erased the OS from flash requiring me to send it back to NEC for repair.

What did I learn?
Don't rush in without more information!
The existing bootloader on the Mobilepro 900 can be controlled via the serial cable.
Serial cables for the MP900 are RARE.
Alan Computech had 1 left
There is a copy from CF to RAM option for the bootloader.
Don't rush in without more information!

I'm currently waiting on my MP900 to get back from NEC so I can test the serial cable/bootloader interface and to try again to put linux on the box.

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Here are some comments on your posting:
> These devices seem like much better candidates for a distro for a variety of reasons including:
You left out USB Host mode! This is one of the rare PDA(HPC's) that have Host mode. Host mode allows me to hook any device with drivers to my USB port: hard drives, CD/DVD readers/writers, scanners, Wifi, TV Input, and on and on. Guess what linux has TONS of usb drivers. Ok maybe not as much as Win XP but definately more than Win CE by a long shot. USB Host was the deciding factor for buying the MP900. That factor overrode the DSTN screen problem.

> ....one could write the bootloader...
If I understand correctly bootloaders are REALLY tough to write. I tried many beta versions of the one for iPaqs. Many a bricked device during the development cycle. Very difficult to support all of the different iPaqs. You MUST know ARM assembly really well and have insight into the PDA hardware. I'll be a beta tester but cannot write that kind of software. Good luck...

> With WM5, which uses flash exclusively for storage and ram only for program execution, it should be possible to have a true dual-boot HPC!
You can get Windows Mobile 5 for a Mobilepro 900?!!!? I know everyone would be listening/paying for that! (Microsoft pay attention! Quit filling landfills with perfectly good PDA's just because you don't sell a generic PDA OS. (everyone else: it's a conspiracy make an OS that is "tailored" by the device manufacturer for their device only...ie you can only get the OS from the device manufacturer. Why would they want to provide upgrades which cost them both development money and loss of future sales money. This is why linux is a solution. What firefox on your PDA! I know how to get it there. Linux.)) (sorry rather passionate about this)

> Running linux from a CF card is less than ideal, as writes to the card will quickly result in bad blocks/fs corruption.
This has been mostly eliminated by: 1- not using a paging file, 2- new file systems, 3- automatic load leveling done by SD cards(maybe CF??? either way SD in CF adapter).
The Zaurus line uses SD / internal flash for storage. I run my SL-5500 on a 1 gig SD card. Flash memory is disposable at $30 / year.
I like the idea of a Microdrive and will eventually put a 4gig drive(< $100) in my Mobilepro 900. Currently I have a 1 gig CF card that I will be using that to get linux on board.

> So, what do people think about this idea?
I think the idea rocks and is essential for future use of the machine(new apps).
So make your choice:
- Watch all of the 3rd party app devs slowly quit supporting your device
- use only the existing apps
- discard your perfectly functional device and upgrade to the newer devices
OR
Load linux and realize that anything you want is available and future stuff will be written...

Bill

hi Bill let us know when you get your 900 back. (how much was the repair ? just to know in case..)
so you bought a serial cable from alancomputech? i had to tell them there's a difference between the 7xx and 900 serial cable... so if you indeed got one real 900 cable from them, you're lucky

about the OS tailored for the particular device: to achieve small footprint you can't have all possible drivers in ROM, only the one that is suitable for the device. and so on.. pocketpc manufacturers release a lot of updates nowadays, especially for HTC devices. and users can flash back and forth, to the older OS as well. NEC just wasn't this generous, but we should thank them that they at least released the ce.net upgrade. sad it is one way... if you can solve the problem of how to go back to hpc2000 that will be very cool. i want a serial cable to experiment

about your last sentence: even the zaurus with its very matured linux distros can't have everything. this sentence was a little misleading IMO. you still have to recompile apps.. but indeed there are stilla lot of apps.

Edited by cmonex 2006-07-07 4:24 PM

So much sense spoken, i picked up an mp 900 for just this purpose, but have struggled to find a distro to get me even to console level. It would certainly bring a new lease of life to the hpc,

Well it's back and I'm back.
I got it back right before I went on vacation. Toy Story -> DVD Catalyst -> TCPMP made a "watchable" DVD player. (Remind me to hack the TFT screen into my 900 after linux).

So how much did it cost to reflash my ROM?
NEC repair has a $40 eval and $40/hour service rate. They were generous in that they only charged the eval rate.
Unfortunately I second day'd it to them and had them second day it back so add another $50 to the cost. I also had them send me an original replacement CD of the accompanying software. (NOT the rom, just the extra CD). That was $12.95 (Not bad). I explicitly asked them for a copy of the HPC/2000 ROM so I could reflash it myself. They were nice but explicitly said NO. Oh well had to try. So overall I spent about $100 to learn "DONT RUN CYACE ON A MOBILEPRO 900". (sorry to shout just trying to save some future grief.)
(The only complaint I have was that NEC took a long time to do the repair. They got it on the 1st of July and I got it back in the first week of August. )

As for the serial cable from Alancomputech. They said they only had one. I recieved mine after I had shipped the unit back to NEC for repair. (best repair I might have been able to do is an upgrade to CE.NET and it wouldn't have been legal so I chose to get NEC to reflash to the original HPC/2000 ROM) When I got the cable I investigated it (very powerful magnifying glass). It looks correct but I haven't tried it yet. The cable cost approx $50. I'll give it a go and see if I cant upload the bootloader menu to this site.

As far as linux goes?
I tried linuxce.exe but it just exited with some error like "illegal instruction". Luckily my MP900 didn't melt. I see 2 solutions now hpcboot (open BSD tool) and linuxce (720 degrees uses this).
I think I should really buy a second machine just to put linux on it...I think I will...it would also give me a sacrificial box to test the TFT install on.
So anyone know anything about bootloaders?

hey very nice of NEC that they didnt charge you much...

btw i too got hold of a serial cable since then for the 900! it does fit in the serial port, but haven't tested it yet (my pc does have two serial ports, just a lazy swine). we can experiment together! can you visit #hpcdev at efnet again?

I'd like to run linux on my Mobilepro 900. Has anyone figured out how to do this? Let me know.

glanceup@gmail.com

Thanks!

Here are a few different linux images for the netbook pro i stumbled across.

http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/images/netbook-pro/20...

Cheers.

hm lots of hacking started here.. oh the memories.. *nostalgic*