now it's all about hacking ppc apps to hpcs - maybe a summary?

hi all,

i've tried many times to search for information about the topic: hacking ppc applications by the means of those famous dlls (mfcce, various aygshells and the others..), hexediting and about creating a system path, etc., and i've just got more and more confused (and desperate!) with my experiences ... i'd really like to have some place where it's all written down together so that anyone can understand everything and anything that's relevant.

my problem then:

(all of these happening with a plain Jornada 720 with HPC2000.)

i've got netfront 3.0 (working on 3.1 - i'm going to post about it soon!), acrobat reader 1.0 (please someone could create an acrobat 2.0 install??? please! i looked into that and it seems quite difficult - not only dlls but another things to sort out...), and another things that explicitly need the ppc version of mfcce300.dll. BUT: my socket bluetooth drivers do need the hpc version of it. so there's always a conflict. my wlan card (senao - with hawking's hpc driver! senao has ONLY the ppc driver - please take notification, C:Amie regarding the HCL) config utility also won't work then. i still can get on the wlan network, just can't change the config without replacing mfcce...
now what's interesting is that before i got my bluetooth card, netfront worked if i placed the mfcce in its folder on the CF so no conflicts when using another program with hpc mfcce. now i can't do that any more! i must place it in the windows folder and that's where the conflicts start! could a system path help with this? i'm not sure about this.. anyway, i think this strange behaviour is because of socket driver is always being loaded even when the card isn't in the machine. (not sure, just trying to guess it...)
i almost forgot: of course, the netfront.exe IS hexedited to mfcce301. but it does not want to recognize and use the 301! only the 300! that's another mystery to me!! (it wasn't me who hexedited it, i just downloaded it from somewhere, already hexedited to 301). if only hexediting would work... then all my problems would be solved...
oh and about acrobat reader: i haven't tried hexediting yet. before i got the bluetooth card, i didn't need it. and now i'm not sure if it would work.. considering netfront's unsuccessful case...

please someone help. i really need it

p.s.: sorry for my complicated way of telling the story. if it can't be understood, i'll try to rephrase it.

Edited by cmonex 2005-03-19 11:31 PM

First and foremost, modifying distributed software is not always legal. Please refer to the software license agreement, specifically in its terms on modifications.

I hope now you see why we do not talk about it.

That being said, I think I can at least give you some links.
PC Counselor has some instructions of this "solution" posted. But it's not the easiest to understand, if you know what I mean.
http://www.pc-counselor.com/j720.htm

Zona Handheld PC, or specifically its Forum section, has a LOT of information about all sorts of "solutions" posted by talented users... in Spanish. I just babelfish it.
http://www.todopocketpc.com/zonahpc.asp
(The forum is "foro hpc" with the coffee mug)

I suggest you the following. Do only one thing at a time. For example, install Acrobat Reader in the way that no DLLs are in WIndows directory. If you install it on your CF, additional 400 kB for DLLs is not such a problem.

NetFront has a different problem (and especially yours!). It definitely requires (let us call it so to avoid confusion) mfcce301.dll. There are two more issues: if you install it on CF it does not work properly - it must be installed in main memory. Second, it does not accept part of DLLs inside the Windows dir and the rest in private directory. About the second observation - I did not go into details. There maybe is a reference in one of the DLLs or it just requires to have them all in Windows directory. Test it! The DLLs you sent to me don't work. In the past you must have installed some other DLLs and forgot about them. You will find right ones at the Spanish site iniducated by Takwu.

So, step by step - this is the only way to avoid conflicts. Build your environment from scratch! Do a backup before hard reset, of course! Document every step you make - it will help you later to find out where you made a mistake if it suddenly stops working.

The final result will probably be mfcce300.dll, mfcce301.dll, mfcce302.dll... - all residing in the WIndows directory. There is the way (I think PC Counselor) how to change the path to different DLL directory. Anyway, the only way here is "try-and-err" method Of course, there is a lot about on the net - also try learning from others' mistakes!

As takwu quite rightly pointed out, we resist this and I am reluctant to entertain it because in most cases it is in breach of EULA and could constitute enciting people to breack copyright.

There is also something to be said on encouraging cracking when people should be encouraging the developer to make a genuine version... anyone want to climb some mountains with me?

I have written a White Paper on the use of the dll modifications and suggesting a global naming convention for them, it is unpublished as Chiark and I are trying to sort a few things out with a program he has written to go with it.
I can't tell you when either will be made available; he has the Flu, baby and a life - I don't

I wont stop people from discussing DLL modification on the forum on the proviso there is no indication that users are suggesting warezing programs for the task or the developer complains.

RE Senao; you really have to hunt for the CE3 / 2.11 drivers on their site. I would advise you search the HCL for Senao or specifically try NL-2511CD and download the drivers directly from us.

Due to the legal issues I can't really get too heavily involved in helping you, however between the whitepaper and the utility we're making I hope that this will allow end users to set up their system fairly easily.

Oh and on the Acrobat Reader 2.0, I have the thing done (in the same way the 1.0 version doesn't breach the EULA) - really there isn't anything much new apart from it takes up more disk space. I just haven't written an installer for it.

Hi, Chris,

Thanks for a thoughtful post. Ethics and dilemmas aside, I was struck by your comparison of Adobe 1.0 to 2.0 and their similarity. Adobe 1.0 works fine for me, and since at the end of the day, it's simply a reader, I was trying to figure out what 2.0 could improve upon.

Doesn't sound like 2.0 can do much more (though it'd be nice to have the mysterious Find feature on the actual screen rather than lurking off-stage). With so much other software truly needing an update, I wonder why Adobe brought this version out.

Jake

hi all!

thank you all for your detailed answers!

i think i'll have to clarify a little (as i already suspected after posting - i couldn't explain everything clearly enough).


i'm not happy that it's somewhat illegal, however i thought that only hexediting would be illegal. (sorry if i was wrong!! ) and that's what i'd like to avoid by placing the required dll's simply in the program's own directory. but if it wants mfcce also, then it can't be done. it could be, some time ago. i don't know what happened, but i just can't do this any more. i already did many hard resets, the last of them was an all night long one. still, the problem persists. none of the programs realize any longer that the mfcce dll has been copied into their directories. they see the mfcce ONLY if i copy it into the Windows folder. now that still could be solvable, if netfront would react normally to hexediting. i tried to modify the exe now but it still doesn't work. mind you, it never worked, if you downloaded the dll's from my homepage, you can see i mentioned that in the readme file. i tried hexediting acrobat reader also now, and it DID work. that's interesting and confusing at the same time...
note that all of the above applies only to mfcce. the others are still working in the programs' folders (but for how long.. hmm..).

another addition to my story: before i bought the senao wlan card, i tried out every prism2 driver from the hcl. i installed and uninstalled all of them one by one. they all have some configuration application for wlan settings. these (including senao) would run if i copied the ppc mfcce.dll to windows. i don't know what and when happened, but after i bought the card, and installed the senao driver (ppc), wlansta.exe (senao config utility) would not run even if i used the right mfcce.dll. and it's the same since then... so i'm using the hawking driver (real hpc driver). maybe that means something to someone. i can't figure it out...

an important question: does anyone have netfront in a way so that hexediting does work? i mean, netfront calls NOT mfcce300, but the modified dll. ?!

now, my answers to your suggestions:


vjurkas&takwu:

i already saw pc counselor and the like, and i can't understand what the problem is!

it's a good idea to do only one thing at a time. but, if no mfcce dll is in my win directory, acrobat reader does not react. (nor does netfront or ministumbler or any other ppc program...) so...
moreover, i always installed my dll's with the mfcce into the program folder on CF, not into win directory. but i can't do that any longer! that's the problem

netfront does work for me on CF. maybe i'll try to install it in ram but.. that's not the problem, i think.

i didn't understand this: "Second, it does not accept part of DLLs inside the Windows dir and the rest in private directory." which dll's?
and note, i could use netfront earlier with ALL of the dll's in netfront's directory ON CF!!

"The DLLs you sent to me don't work." - i'm really sorry for that they worked, and still work for me if mfcce is in the win folder (BUT!! before, i didn't even need to place mfcce in win and netfront DEFINITELY worked!)
"In the past you must have installed some other DLLs and forgot about them." - no, that's not the case. as far as i know, four dll's are needed: mfcce, a certain version of aygshell, olece and doclist.dll. at least for me, netfront needs these four dll's to run.
am i wrong? please correct me if i am! thanks


C:Amie, thank you very much for not forbidding talking about this topic. i don't think it's warezing. just hacking, not cracking.

"I have written a White Paper on the use of the dll modifications and suggesting a global naming convention for them, it is unpublished as Chiark and I are trying to sort a few things out with a program he has written to go with it." - that's interesting, i can't wait!

about senao: i downloaded the driver for senao cf from the HCL and it was the ppc version. i couldn't find the real hpc version but i'd like to have it. i'll try nl-2511 cd, thanks for your idea!

oh and when will be the installer for acro 2.0 finished?

thank you all again,
cmonex

i read that it can read the newer acrobat files (version 1.5 or whatever?). but i have no idea, up to which version acrobat 1.0 can read files.

Re: Adobe 1.0's file-reading ability--I don't know, either, how far 1.0 can go. I must admit, I only use 1.0 to read large manuals (TM, my Mako's manual, etc.) and those files are pretty old, so 1.0 has never let me down.

I hadn't heard that.

If any Registered board user wants to test it, I'll send a EULA valid version to them by mail.
Must be able to take 4MB attachment and accept .exe's - so no GMail or Hotmail. You'll need the usual DLL's from the 1.0 release in with the .exe so grab them from the 1.0 redist from \Windows.

Offers open until the end of this month. PM me your nominated mail address.

many thanks for the offer, C:Amie! i've sent you a PM!

to the topic... i've solved the problem (with hard resets again and the like). my jornada works normally now. the only one remaining problem solved also: hexediting netfront. it is NOT enough to hexedit the exe file. you must do that with jltpe.dll and olece.dll (they also call mfcce...) as well, AND must use the right ppc mfcce301.dll. i mean, it must not call simply mfcce300, but 301 already! if you don't have the right one, it can be modified with hexediting of course.. note that it refers to mfcce 3 times!
i hope i could help if there's someone else also who would like to use netfront with wlan or bluetooth.

Edited by cmonex 2005-03-22 2:45 PM

thanks C:Amie, it works without problems. i was surprised at first launch... it showed almost nothing. but i thought why not and pressed tab 3 times, and it worked again hehe

>>>Disclaimer: I am not encouraging anyone to break any law. I am just exercising my right to express a dissenting opinion <<<

In America, freedom of speech over rides unethical "legal" over extensions of copyright law. Unfortunately, ethics and law are not one and the same, not even in the USA, traditional home of rugged individualism and due process rights. For instance, it is not illegal to stab your best friend in the back or destroy a competitor's business out of pure greed. Is it ethical? It is legal to take over a nice person's property based on his permission for you to house your family there temporarily or the permission for you to cut through his property to reach yours, under hostile possession statutes. Is it just or ethical? In no other country on earth is it a crime for an 18 year old to have consentual sex with a 16 year old. So, is the act wrong or just eccentrically illegal?

So long as discussions of hacking software we buy and own begin with a disclaimer that we do not encourage hacking, which is illegal, we break no law.

The law is wrong, bought and paid for, that makes hacking software we bought illegal. It is no different than a law that makes illegal repairing, improving or modifying a car or toaster we bought illegal. It is also retarding American computer development and handing U.S. computer industry dominance over to the Japanese and Chinese.

Besides, the giant commercial software firms make it impossible to do serious hacks by compiling everything before it is shipped. I know no way to reverse engineer a compiled program so you can alter it.

The breath taking flexibility & superiority of Linux Distros and Linux Open Source software stems directly from the rejection of the policy of forbidding software hacking. All Linus Torvalds & other Open Source developers demand is that no one sell hacked versions (Torvalds had to stop Microsoft from trying to ship a hacked version of Linux!) and they encourage hackers to send them a copy of their hack. Open Source Software groups are good about giving credit to authors of the hacks they incorporate. Result? Exciting, dynamic Operating Systems & software (Linux is an Operating System Kernel).

In the end, Americans will realize that citizen tolerance of the over extension of software copyright (forbiding modification of copyright software by legal owners). is a "crime" against US free market ideals and a "crime" against consumers.

Libraries can loan out copyright materials & Internet firms can rent copyrighted DVDs but if two kids trade music over the Internet, they are threatened with criminal arrest. Meanwhile, the Chinese government costs US music, movie & book firms billions in its open world wide sale of pirated DVDs, CDs & books & the US government got them into the World Trade Organization! Know any top 200 copyright popular songs that did not bring in millions of dollars in profits? About 500 of America's most loved songs were written by Woody Guthrie, who REFUSED to copyright any of them. Did his not making a huge fortune off his art stop him from creating? Did Vincent van Gough's failure to sell his art stop his gifts to humanity?

How would you react if told the copyright of a novel you bought forbids you, under penalty of criminal arrest, from removing the dust jacket or from writing notes on the pages? Rediculous, eh? And as children we thought very strange the warning on mattress content tags that forbid removal-- under threat of criminal arrest--to be very strange! (didn't we feel our world was rational again, when we learned the material content tag law applies only to retailers?) ... Of course, this is all just my humble opinion.

Edited by bruisedquasar 2005-03-23 11:20 AM

I really never understood why you guys insist on hexediting every program that uses the MFC CE libraries. If you just place the Pocket PC CE 3.0 MFC runtimes in the the directory of the program that needs them and run that program, any other programs that are started will continue to use the MFC version that is currently in memory. The only limitation of this method is that you will be unable to run HPC MFC applications at the same time as Pocket PC MFC applications. A small price to pay if you are unable to or don't feel like hexediting. As long as they are still in use, any application that needs them will work. I imagine it wouldn't be too dificult for someone to write a program that lets you switch between the different versions of mfcce300.dll and olece300.dll from a tray icon. If you really need to hexedit something, use FK's ExecutabilityCheck and just don't post the modified library. Also, I don't see how freeware applications like the different aygshells created by various different authors could cause any legal issues. They aren't made by microsoft or dumped from a devices ROM. They are applications that users decided to develop to overcome a compatability issue. Just place them in a Systempath or \Windows and many more applications should work correctly on HPC. Placing a freeware program in the \Windows directory is far from "hacking" in my eyes.

TFGBD,

i, just like you, had never understood the use of hexediting, before my problems started.
if you have read this thread you should know why i had to hexedit netfront. i couldn't use netfront with bluetooth connection because the bluetooth driver needs the hpc version of mfcce. it's quite a problem if you want to use a *web browser* with an *internet connection* and what's more: even if i didn't insert the bluetooth card, the driver still loaded and used the mfcce. so i couldn't use even acrobat reader or anything i wanted to before uninstalling the driver (and even that was not enough, i had to hard reset). my wlan driver needs the mfcce also, though it still worked, but it was not comfortable at all.
so, no, it was no small price for me! and hexediting isn't a difficult thing to do. if you don't have these needs, it's still much more comfortable if you do the hexedits once and then you can forget about it forever (though not sure about the legal issues....)

Edited by cmonex 2005-04-05 2:13 PM