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EXCLUSIVE: PocketDVD.ca' PocketDVD 1.1

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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2005-03-22 8:23 PM
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Video and computing is either something you cherish or something you steer clear of. It needn't be this way.

PocketDVD.ca are a new company formed around a very simple premise. To make video simple and functional.
If you have a device which can support video playback, then their solution are designed for you, no matter what your level of expertise.

In the world of Portable Video Players, Media Centres and digital content your PDA needn't be left behind, and even the Handheld PC can become a functional member of your video entertainment arsenal. By allowing you to convert your DVD's, home movies for use on any Mobile Device quickly, easily and optimally PocketDVD aims to give you freedom away from the home entertainment system. But can video and DVD conversion really be that straightforward?

In an Exclusive to us here at HPC:Factor We take a look at PocketDVD 1.1 to see if it is everything PocketDVD.ca set out to make it.


HPC:Factor Editor-in-Chief, Chris Tilley has spent the last few months working with PocketDVD.ca on addressing the needs of end users in the Handheld PC community and in the wider video communities at large.

After weeks of intensive testing read the first Exclusive review of PocketDVD 1.1 here on HPC:Factor and let us know what you think right here in the forum.

Review: PocketDVD.ca' PocketDVD 1.1
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Yoldering Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 1:36 PM
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Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou. I have been waiting for this one.
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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 6:00 PM
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Group,

We are very excited to announce another competition. We have teamed up with PocketDVD.ca to offer you all the chance to win one of 5 copies of PocketDVD 1.1 with PocketVideo.

All you have to do is WOW! us, or at least tell us what makes people gasp in amazement when you whip out your PDA.

You can enter the competition here:
http://www.hpcfactor.com/homepage/comp/

Winners will be announced first week of April, so hurry! You don't have long.

the competition is open to everybody, but only one entry per person, so make it count!
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PocketDVD Page Icon Posted 2005-03-24 9:23 AM
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Thanks for the review Chris, you did a supurb job at it.

It's like to use this space to explain a little bit more on what screenrating is made for, and what it means for users of older handhelds.

Screenrating adjusts the framerate based on the limitations of your device.

more technical information, as well as testfiles can be found on

http://www.pocketdvd.ca/screenrating.htm

but in short, it's basicaly doing the following.
During testing An Ipaq 2210, a NEC MP900 and a Jornada720 were used.
These devices differ greatly in age, size and screen capabilities.

The 2210 IPAQ has a smaller screen, TFT and an OS thats optimized for its processor.
The Jornada720 has a 640x240 screen, based upon the older DSTN technology, and uses HPC2000 as os, which is basicaly optimized for the StrongArm206mhz of the device.
The NEC MP900 has also a 640x240 DSTN screen, similair specifications to the IPAQ, but does not have an OS thats optimized for its processor.

After testing, we came to the result that for TFT screens with a low resolution, 320x240 basicaly the IPAQ is capable of playing any amount of frames that are being thrown at it.
It showed some tearing when going over 20 frames per second when watching a high speed movie, but this is barely noticable.

Before the NEC arived, we found out that the best playback bitrate on a J720 for DIVX is around 160kbps, so I started converting a bunch of files already on this bitrate to get started when the NEC arived.
The files were a mixture of widescreen and fullscreen movies, and when the NEC finaly arived, they all looked bad. Ghosting was terrible, and it just looked like a slideshow due to the frames that were being skipped to keep up with the sound.
On pause, they look good, but when in motion it was unwatchable.

After some fiddling with the framerate, a framerate of 8 came to be the best framerate for playback a movie on the full 640x240 resolution. (this is different then normal widescreen). Converting a few movies (full/wide/ultrawide) using this framerate resulted good results for the ultrawide files, but the others still looked bad.

With this information, Screenrating has been calculated, and after testing with lowbitrate files, it proves to show its quality on DSTN screens.
8frames per second might sound low, but due to the limitations of an older screen this does not look like a slideshow presentation.
A DSTN screen takes a longer time to fadeout a frame when a new one is being send to the screen, and thus it's limitations actually make playback smoother then it actually is.
Looking at files encoded for these devices on a desktop computer is however not recommended.

On the screenrating section of the www.pocketdvd.ca website, are some encoded files for testing. They are all encoded on 100kbps to minimize the influence of the processor speed of your device, but do provide a full screen playback for the resolution you download it for.

The left/right offset has been used to modify them to an exact fit, but the files are not really intended to showoff the capabilities of PocketDVD.

The files give you an impression of what kind of screenrating setting would result in the best playback on your device, and after you have found your proper screenrating, just download the trial version (or enter the contest and hope you win) and try a few movies/dvd's of your own, using your screenrating.

When testing these files you will notice that the lower fps files will provide a better picture quality as well when compared to files using the same settings and higher fps.

The bitrate quality is directly influenced by the amount of frames these bits need to be distributed on.

in basic english, a file encoded on 160 kbps with 8 frames per second will have a same picture quality per frame as a 16 frames per second file on 320 kbps.

If you have multiple devices, you can save profiles for each device, and if you have found the perfect setting for your device, feel free to submit them to me. We are currently working on a list of devices with screenrating for on the site.

Sincerly,

PocketDVD
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-03-25 8:03 AM
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PocketDVD, thanks for the information. interesting, i'd never have guessed. i'll try the files soon
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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2005-03-27 2:53 PM
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The Screen Rating system is just so simple, and yet so effective. It really does allow you to get the most out of your device.

It may seem a bit off-putting, but dont let it. BetaPlayer automatically benchmarks, all you have to do is download the sample files, find the one you think looks the best on your screen and grab a calculator.

Once you have the number PocketDVD will remember it, you can save it to a profile and that's it. All done.
In my humble opinion it is well worth a look. Most H/PC Pro devices will be able to handle playback. I know that the Jornada 680 range can - although I don't have benchmark data to share at the moment; Snoogie needs to get back to me on that. Any other 680 user want to let us know what you think of video on a 680?
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matrixcore Page Icon Posted 2005-03-27 3:17 PM
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i've a J680 to test right now, just tell me what do i've to do sir!
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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2005-03-27 3:41 PM
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Okey dokey

It's overviewed here:
http://www.pocketdvd.ca/screenrating.htm

You'll want to download from the above url a number of the sample videos for your HVGA screen. I recommend the 6 and 10 fps ones.

Next you will want the 0.5 stable release of beta player for your deivce from here:
http://corecodec.org/frs/?group_id=9&release_id=33 (The pink block)

Instlal beta player and upload the sample video to the device.

Open up the video file in beta player and from the file menu choose benchmark. It will play back the video in a very obscure way - decidedly worse than just by general playback. Let it complete playing through to the end and it'll present you with a statistics screen.
If you could post the statistics from there onto the forum here (mainly for PocketDVD and myself to get an overall feel of playback) the Screen Rating for the 680 will be (640 x 240 x <frame rate from benchmark>

For example 640*240*8 = 1228800 for the Jornada 720.
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matrixcore Page Icon Posted 2005-03-27 5:28 PM
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Ok, i've played both videos, so here they are the stadistics
640x240x6:
Average speed: 42.93%
Frames: 936
Audio samples: 7509888
Size: 3135kb

Bench time: 6:03.399
Bench FPS: 2.58
Bench sample rate: 20666
Bench data rate: 71kbit/sec

Original time: 2:36.000
Original FPS: 6
Original sample rate: 48000
Original data rate: 165 kbit/sec

screenrating: 396288 ??? (640x240x2.58)

640x240x10:
Avg spd: 27.52%
Frames: 1560
Audio smpl: 7509888
Size: 3253kb

Bench time: 9:26.955
Bench framerate: 2.75
Bench sample rate: 13246
Bench data rate: 47kbit/s

Original time: 2:36:00
Original FPS: 10.00
Original sample rate: 48000
Original Data rate: 171 kbit/s

Screenrating: 422400 ??? (640x240x2.75)

Done Sir!!
just one question, why do the videos yielded different results, they're both faster the J's video sys, so shouldn't they be the same?
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Snappy! Page Icon Posted 2005-03-27 7:37 PM
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Chris and all, finally a really cool piece of software priced at mass market! ... I'm not saying that coding for the HPC is easier or anything (ok, in some cases, it is easier, while in others it is not! ) ... but Palm/PPC users are just spoilt with the $10~$20 price range of most software that they pay for, if its not already overshadowed by freeware.

I think PocketDVD is priced very nicely at $11.95 (£6.30, €9.00, ¥1260 est.). If anyone still complain about this pricing, I'm going to ... I'm going to ... argghhh ... (note to self: no smacking of people for asking for freeware! ... hehehe)

PocketDVD ... Great jobs guy(s)!
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PocketDVD Page Icon Posted 2005-03-27 7:39 PM
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The ratings you have are close to the same.
I'd go for the safe way, and use a framerate of 2 for the rating on your device.
It doesnt sound like much, but you are talking about FULL SCREEN video here on your device. If you adjust the screensize of the limits a bit lower, you can still get decent video playback on your device. just not fullscreen (unless you want to use a DVD for a powerpoint presentation that is)

The Jornada uses a 206 strongARM processor, and I believe yours has a MIPS 133 Mhz?

Just put in your screenrating (2x 640x240) 307200, checkmark the screenrating feature, and adjust the screensize a bit lower. Try something like 400x200 this gives a fps of about 3-4 but since a movie will not fit normaly in these limitations, it will end up with a higher fps.

On my nec 900 I find it perfectly acceptable to watch a movie on 6 fps.

Using these settings, play around with different bitrates a bit. starting with 120kbps for the video (audio leave it on 32kbps mono). see if that plays ok.

you will know when you hit the maximum bitrate if the following happens.

Benchmark the file you created for a while in betaplayer. the beginning is always slow, so leave it running for at least 2-3 minutes (do a chapter conversion in pocketdvd, if you select the same chapter for start and end, it will only do 1 chapter, so you dont have to wait till the whole movie is done)

if the file has a video bitrate that your device is capable of, it will have the same fps as the file, or close to it.
if your bitrate is too high, the fps in the benchmark will be lower.

I hope that helps a bit.
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Snappy! Page Icon Posted 2005-03-27 7:47 PM
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Hi, one more thing. Maybe I missed it amongst the review and replies, but is there a table outlining the output filesize vs bitrate/framerate/screensize?

Any ballpark figure we have yet? eg, For a decent DVD conversion to 640X240, what is the filesize for a 1.5hrs movie? I'm saying, for those who tried the trial and did the conversion, found a sweetspot setting, and converted a 1.5hrs movie, how big is the final file?

I have 3 X 512MB CF file on hand. I know there are those (fortunate) amongst us with 1/2/4GB microdrives/CF cards ... but there are those struggling on 128MB or 256MB (or 64???) ... so it would be good if there is a table with these numbers.

If there already is, kindly point out the link? Thanks!
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PocketDVD Page Icon Posted 2005-03-27 8:50 PM
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the program gives a general indication on the resulting filesize (it doesnt detect the playlength 100% but good enough to give you a genral idea of what the filesize will be.

Mainly the bitrate determines the filesize.

Below an indication of converted files I did, playlength and filesize.
All are 160kbps video, 32kbps audio

Chicago, 1h49m 169mb
Alien vs Predator, 1h40m 154mb
Paparazzi, 1h24m, 130mb

thesse are customized with the offset sliders (www.pocketdvd.ca/offset.htm) to make it fullscreen 640x240, using the default screenrating, resulting in 6 fps playback.

But , dont complain about the 6fps untill you try it.

Basicaly since I've been around on this forum, I've been devoting my time to make PocketDVD the best video app for HPC users, (thats why I got the nec in the first place anyways) Looking at the resulting files when viewed on my device, I am confident enough that I accomplished my goal.

When I started programming I only had a 128mb memory card. Did my calculations by hand and used windows media encoder 9 manualy to convert my dvd rips.
PocketDVD can put LOTR Extended on a 128mb card if you really wanted it to. I wouldnt recommend watching it though, but it's possible (I know, because I tried)

the lowest bitrate for video you can select is 40kbps, but unless you are using 1 fps, it's pretty much unwatchable.
Last year I had a bunch of movies converted to a slightly lower quality then I normaly use, because I had limited storage (256+512+128) and a long flight ahead of me, so I reduced the screensize a little, and encoded everything on lower settings. this allowed me to put 6 1 1/2 hr movies on a 512mb card, and in total I had 9 full length movies with me.

You can do what you want with the filesize, and it all depends on your taste of quality. Some people need a 512mb card because of the high bitrate of the file (full fps and 128kbps stereo sound) but I settle for less.

Its all up to you


Edited by PocketDVD 2005-03-27 8:58 PM
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Snappy! Page Icon Posted 2005-03-28 7:37 AM
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PocketDVD - 2005-03-27 6:50 PM

Chicago, 1h49m 169mb
Alien vs Predator, 1h40m 154mb
Paparazzi, 1h24m, 130mb


Thanks PocketDVD! Now, that is not too shabby, is it? The file sizes are rather acceptable and usable, given the cheap availibility of CF cards!

PocketDVD - 2005-03-27 6:50 PM

But , dont complain about the 6fps untill you try it.


ok ok ... I won't say a hoot until I try it ...

I must say I never watched a video on DSTN, back when DSTN was THE Hi-tech stuff as far as LCD goes. And I think I speak for quite a lot of people when I say that. So I'll see what happens with this once I get back to my place with DSL. I'm now on 26.4kbps and I dun think I want to download and install about anything!

PocketDVD - 2005-03-27 6:50 PM

the lowest bitrate for video you can select is 40kbps, but unless you are using 1 fps, it's pretty much unwatchable.
Last year I had a bunch of movies converted to a slightly lower quality then I normaly use, because I had limited storage (256+512+128) and a long flight ahead of me, so I reduced the screensize a little, and encoded everything on lower settings. this allowed me to put 6 1 1/2 hr movies on a 512mb card, and in total I had 9 full length movies with me.


Very impressive ... so did u manage to get your handheld to run that long on battery? That is certainly not something a notebook want to even think of!
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PocketDVD Page Icon Posted 2005-03-28 10:30 AM
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Snappy! - 2005-03-28 6:37 AM

Very impressive ... so did u manage to get your handheld to run that long on battery? That is certainly not something a notebook want to even think of!



it was the IPAQ 2210, and the battery lasts about 3 hours in there. I also had a superbattery for it that holds double the charge, so that totaled in 9hrs of watching time.

It worked out ok.
(return trip didnt. I did charge both batteries I thought, but somehow the charging didnt work out the way I thought it did, and on the way back I ended up having half an hour of charge left total.
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