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Microsoft and Symbian

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bruisedquasar Page Icon Posted 2005-04-01 5:25 PM
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ProgramSynthesiser - 2005-03-31 3:12 AM

... if he sold out (not gonna happen).


I wish I had your optimism. I have seen far too many people turn out to not be what people thought they were and I have seen too many sell out over many years to be optimistic. I have mentored too many people into success they never dreamed possible only to have them forget me a few years up the income tax ladder. I hope Torvalds does not sell out and he certainly can. He still owns the copyright to basic Linux OS kernel. He can revoke the public domain status any time because of the way he made Linux public domain (he was careful not to make it freeware), so that he could maintain standards. The many Unix PC variant Operating Systems is a macro example of not controlling the basic OS kernel. MACS, for instance, run on a Unix variant but it is compiled form only like Windows.

If Torvalds licenses Linux Kernel to MS, the many copies of Linux out there can no longer be legally copied or distributed, which would kill the hundreds of Linuxs distros like Mandrake-Linux and would probably end the dynamite Sharp Zaurus line of Linux handheld PCs. I think Xandros-Linux & the small, emerging Linux hardware makers would collapse fast. When MS takes over something, it tolerates no side licenses. It demands no less than total dominance. We should be concerned that Gates wants MS to become our world bank! He has already tried to buy Paypal.

Peter Norton and Paul McAfee began as shareware authors and they released some utilities as public domain. When they went commercial, they revoked public domain. P.K. Katz, creator of PKZIP style file compression sued some commercial firms for stealing his basic method and the "zip" name. He lost because he did not copyright user versions. He just released them freeware.

...Of course, this is just my humble opinion.

--Bruised
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bruisedquasar Page Icon Posted 2005-04-01 5:40 PM
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ProgramSynthesiser - 2005-04-01 12:24 AM

.-Nope, people are too stupid to do without manuals. A 100 page manual could be written on all the stupid things that you shouldn't do with a kitchen knife and how to use one properly.


My favorites are the pages of warnings a person gets with a finely crafted and made firearm. Makes one wonder if it is even safe to touch it without a space suit! Then, there are burger joint hot beverages that now contain warnings that they are hot! A Cincinnati welfare momma got a million from Burger King and a million from Wendy's because BKs coffee and Wendy's hot cocoa did not include "hot beverage" warnings.

What troubles me is the Torx screw driver I bought recently that warned I should wear safety glasses when using!!

I wonder how we made it through childhood. No one wore seatbelts, we stood in the back of moving pickup trucks, had no airbags or safety bumpers and no one rode a bike wearing helmets or pads. ...There was this kid who jumped off the carport roof wearing his new superman outfit... Maybe if there had been a manual and warnings on the suit...

--Bruised
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sophisticatedleaf Page Icon Posted 2005-04-01 8:00 PM
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All of the versions of Windows and DOS don't work like Linux. Linux requires root passwords, and the whole way that it works would not go with Microsofts way of doing things. Anyways, the Linux community is prospering, and if something did go wrong, the whole world would sue and get it back.

Anyways - Microsoft would not be able to tell that my computer is running Linux, and since I never agreed to a EULA when I installed it, there would be nothing that they could do about it. Anyways, the GPL says that you cannot sell the product. It cannot ever be commercial. Otherwise it would not be Linux. Microsoft hasn't bought UNIX has it? Linux is just a variant. The BSD's are another.
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ET3D Page Icon Posted 2005-04-02 6:22 PM
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ProgramSynthesiser - 2005-04-01 8:00 PM
Anyways, the GPL says that you cannot sell the product. It cannot ever be commercial.

If you've ever read the GPL, you'll know that it doesn't limit commercial sales in any way. That's why RedHat can charge huge sums of money for Linux. All the GPL does is force you to release your source code, which means that anyone can compile it and distribute it (and even sell it), so in order to charge money you have to have some extra value, such as support or content. (For example, Quake is open source, but its content isn't free, so you have to buy the content if you want to play.)

As for MS and Symbian, I've read that Nokia plans to use ActiveSync. I don't know if that's good or not. I haven't used the latest Nokia sync software, since it conflicts with the Psion sync software, but I found the Psion sync software to have some advantages over ActiveSync. Though perhaps my experience might have been better had I used a newer machine than my Handhelp PC Pro.

BTW, that H/PC has been officially retired. I'm planning to buy a laptop soon, and maybe also a PocketPC machine with 640x480 resolution later this year (because the laptop will be too large/heavy at 2kg). Quite a bit of money, but I think I'll be happier with things that work and are supported.
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-04-02 7:46 PM
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so sorry that you want to leave the HPC community... believe me its not that bad
that theyre supported no longer. you still can do anything with your hpc
ive seen vga ppcs and you really have to have a good eyesight if you want to use them in real vga.
even then you could be easily got tired looking at the tiny letters i do get tired real soon...
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Snappy! Page Icon Posted 2005-04-02 7:50 PM
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ProgramSynthesiser - 2005-04-01 6:00 PM

All of the versions of Windows and DOS don't work like Linux. Linux requires root passwords, and the whole way that it works would not go with Microsofts way of doing things. Anyways, the Linux community is prospering, and if something did go wrong, the whole world would sue and get it back.


I guess because because Windows/DOS and Linux are different categories of OS to begin with. Linux was more meant to upseat the big boys UNIX, than to upseat Windows. The fact that it was compiled to run on i386 machine was because Linus or the earlier programmers who developed the core code could not quite possibly get their hands on Sparc or HP or IBM(!) Unix machines at home. I can almost safely say that as far as the core developers of the Linux movement was concerned, they were interested in providing an alternative *nix flavor that was affordable for students without BIG BUDGETS to run *nix apps etc. oh well, I think everyone knows this already ...

The thing about Linux that is attractive is *not* just because of the root password (although that helps with security compared to DOS/Win9x which basically was as safe as a tap by the sink! As long as you have access to it, you can use it!). The thing about Linux is that it is open source. Whether or not Microsoft decides to adopt open source for part or whole of their products is what the industry is crackling up about. Again, I feel myself iterating something everyone else knows ...

ProgramSynthesiser - 2005-04-01 6:00 PM

Anyways - Microsoft would not be able to tell that my computer is running Linux, and since I never agreed to a EULA when I installed it, there would be nothing that they could do about it. Anyways, the GPL says that you cannot sell the product. It cannot ever be commercial. Otherwise it would not be Linux. Microsoft hasn't bought UNIX has it? Linux is just a variant. The BSD's are another.


As mentioned above, GPL does not mean one cannot sell the final product that uses GPLed code. It just means that one have to open source the whole (or partial in some variant of GPLs) product.

And as highlighted in one of the definition of "FREE" in GPL and open sourcing, it is FREE as in FREEDOM to use the source code, and not always FREE as in beer. The emphasis of GPL, I believe, is on sharing source code and thereby preventing reinvention of the proverbial wheel.
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sophisticatedleaf Page Icon Posted 2005-04-02 9:09 PM
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Well, it is the sharing part that I like the most. Much more progress can be done that way, and there is such a large community. Lol Snappy! there is a LOT more to Linux than the advantage of required root passwords...I really just like the way that it works, and the fact that I can do whatever I want with it.
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ET3D Page Icon Posted 2005-04-03 4:17 AM
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cmonex - 2005-04-02 7:46 PM
so sorry that you want to leave the HPC community... believe me its not that bad that theyre supported no longer. you still can do anything with your hpc

Sadly, the machine has caused me quite a bit of trouble. WinCE 2.11 is old, and a lot of the newer CF cards don't have drivers, and it has limited software. The machine I have is like a small tablet PC, and I like the format, but it weighs about 1kg, so I figure going to 2kg and gaining all the benefits of a real PC is a decent compromise. I do like things which are small, and I have a fondness for esoteric platforms, but a laptop will let me do much more. I will still have my Psion 5mx for when I need something small with a keyboard.

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ive seen vga ppcs and you really have to have a good eyesight if you want to use them in real vga.
even then you could be easily got tired looking at the tiny letters i do get tired real soon...

I figure I'll usually have the laptop for working with lots of text. I'll have to see how I get along with this.
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sophisticatedleaf Page Icon Posted 2005-04-03 5:54 AM
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Cmonex, I am not bored of HPC's or want to leave the community. Right now though I have an opportunity of possibly a lifetime, and I really need to get working on other computer skills, which will put my activity here next to zero for a while.

-I'm keeping my 720
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-04-03 9:48 PM
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ET3D: ok, i see your point now. i thought you have a HPC2000 device. that's quite supported, at least i could get everything i wanted for it from another web browser to bluetooth&wifi
psion is still good though only a hpc2000/newer hpc can be better than that.


programsynth: okay, no probs i meant my post for ET3D but i'm happy that you responded too and that you'll keep your great 720
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NeoStrider Page Icon Posted 2005-11-23 12:04 PM
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Now I can talk from my experiences..

I never had a chance to present my self , as I did breafly on my H/PC explorer on linux topic.

Im recent on the HPC world, with my simple Cassiopeia A-11, but im quite experienced on the Symbian world. I've been a Series 60 game developer for about 1 year. I had a Nokia N-Gage, but it was stolen a few months ago. My impressions match what was said about HPCs and PPCs topic: they have very different uses.

This Casio I bought isnt really new to me. I trid yo buy it before, when I still had the N-Gage, but I gave up, as the Casio had some issues I didnt knew how to overcome.

The N-Gage is a very powerful machine, with a limited-yet smart interface. It didnt had office or decent input methods ,but I was very used to it. My use was mostly for debuggig, internet browsing (Opera browser working JUST AS DESKTOP VERSION) and a good messenger. Great games and a lot of emulators. Before actually buying the Cassiopeia, I considered buying the newest model : N-Gage QD

On the other hand ,the HPC has a great notebook feeling. Im very used to notebooks, as I still have my old Compaq Contura 486. I used it for college works, but it was HEAVY to carry around and it didnt had battery anymore. So the Casio solved this issue. I still miss the facilities from the Symbian. Only now I feel my A-11 like a complete computer (after months). The N-Gage felt like it almost instantly.

My heviest complain about the HPC is its legacy standards: only serial sync. no linux support. hard to expand.

This ActiveSync issue Symbian is pursing is USELESS. I could live without it forever. The ideal for me was to have both devices. And even more cooler if the N-Gage had a IrDA port, so i could use it as a modem.

HPC offered me some conforts too: I finally could share my boardband, using the craddle (PIE 1.1 only ) and I finally got a onboard programming app (PocketC).Im quite satisfied with the A-11 and I plan to use it as long as I stay in college, but for my professional life, I plan to look for a Jornada....


One last issue I was waiting just before my N-Gage was stolen: the agree with MS also included support for WMA files. Back them , i used a lot of them and it was very annoying to convert them for ACC ( much better sound quality at lower bit rates). unfornutelly, it only came with the new NSeries (that im looking forward to get...it would be a very cool combination with the jornada).


PS: being a developer for Nokia technologies, Im also tuned with the 770 internet tablet project. As i contribucted with the project and subscripted to the Developer Device program , I might get a discount code for the device. in this case, the jornada will mostly disappear from my dreams (Debian linux ROX!)

PS2: sorry for the long and (possibly) pointless topic. I thouight it would be nice to have someone with the experience in both sides to comment the topic.


PS3: about the Open Software Movement: as long as I want my apps to be free and I have Debian and GCC, there will be Open Software Movement.
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sophisticatedleaf Page Icon Posted 2005-11-23 3:28 PM
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NeoStrider - 2005-11-23 9:04 AM

PS3: about the Open Software Movement: as long as I want my apps to be free and I have Debian and GCC, there will be Open Software Movement.


I definitely agree with you there.

Who needs the internet tablet? I run Debian on my 720. (The kernel just needs work)

Too bad about the n-gage being stolen. Personally, I have always seen those as being limited devices with their interface. Then again, I never really have had a need for a cellphone/pda all in one. Although, I have wanted the serial sync cable for my phone to go online with my Jornada.

In my opinion, however - I still like the CE 2 devices more, as they are more pda's to me. When I see my 720, with its powerful processor and li-ion battery, I do not see the point of it being a pda. Why not just use it as a full-fledged laptop?

Now the CE 2 devices, running off AA batteries like every pda should, are more what I would prefer. With those devices, I would go out of my way to hack them to the way I like, and possibly program little games and apps. Its just the nature of those devices, you want to see them do more. With my 720, I just see it as being pitifully limited in its current state. It's web browser wasn't even decent when it was released. The symbian devices released now always have better ones...
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-11-23 4:24 PM
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NeoStrider - 2005-11-23 6:04 PM

I trid yo buy it before, when I still had the N-Gage, but I gave up, as the Casio had some issues I didnt knew how to overcome.


why this model (casio a-11)? any particular reason?
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NeoStrider Page Icon Posted 2005-11-24 11:27 AM
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the price
the N-Gage (+ MMC , for usb connection) cost me 700 reais (today 350 dollars - at that time , 233) .
I got Cassiopeia for 120 reais (60 dollars todat - 40 at that time)

it expensive for both, but things in Brazil are expensive anyway.

the funny thing is that the battery charger (pack with 4 AA ,4 AAA , car charger and DC adapter) costed me 70 reais , 50 less than the casio itself. When I tell ppl I got it for 120 , ppl dont belive it! Its SO cheap...


The N-Gage was such a machine you cant understand. Nokia cant advertise its full power, cos ppl wont buy high-end devices anymore. Just ask any N-Gage owner and he will tell you...


and finally , about the internet tablet. fot it is interesting, as with the Developer Device Discount , I can get it for 100 dollars (200 reais. I cant get a jornada for that price here - I searched yesterday. a jornada here costs 2000 reais, the cheaper)
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torch Page Icon Posted 2005-11-24 12:38 PM
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Woh, 500 USD for a cheaper Jornada ...
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