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HPC Factor Scottish get together :D

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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2009-08-15 2:49 PM
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Well looks like Half-Saint and his friend will be spending tonight at mr-mac's place...

He is over in scotland and I offered as he was struggling to find somewhere for tonight (not gonna see him on a park bench are we).

Will try and get a photo of this HPC Factor convention

Cheers

John
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Half-Saint Page Icon Posted 2009-08-15 7:03 PM
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Yes, well, hello from Scotland!
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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 5:27 AM
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hahaha, fantastic. Where abouts in Scotland do you find yourself?
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 6:32 AM
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He finds himself in Dunfermline, going over to Edinburgh for a few nights today then they are walking the West Highland Way (will take them to start of it on Tuesday).

John
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Rich Hawley Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 7:17 AM
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I know there is a long history of war between England and Scotland over Scottish independance as a nation unto itself (I saw the Mel Gibson movie), which eventually ended up as a single nation of Great Britian combining the two...but is Scotland today a separate nation or is it like a state here in the US?
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 12:12 PM
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Rich Hawley - 2009-08-16 12:17 PM

I know there is a long history of war between England and Scotland over Scottish independance as a nation unto itself (I saw the Mel Gibson movie), which eventually ended up as a single nation of Great Britian combining the two...but is Scotland today a separate nation or is it like a state here in the US?


Scotland is a country within the UK and under the government of the UK however it does have it's own parliment these days which governs the scottish issues, scotland has it's own legal system, and scottish banks print scottish bank notes...

So in a lot of ways it is like a seperate county (diffrent customs and accent) from England and in other ways it is like a state..

John
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 12:13 PM
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PS the mel gibson movie made it look like Robert the Bruce screwed us over but that's not true it was just for the movie...

We went to see the burial place of Robert the Bruce today in dunfermline abbey.

John

Edited by mr-mac 2009-08-16 12:51 PM
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 12:47 PM
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CE Geek Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 2:36 PM
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mr-mac - 2009-08-16 9:12 AM

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Rich Hawley - 2009-08-16 12:17 PM

I know there is a long history of war between England and Scotland over Scottish independance as a nation unto itself (I saw the Mel Gibson movie), which eventually ended up as a single nation of Great Britian combining the two...but is Scotland today a separate nation or is it like a state here in the US?


Scotland is a country within the UK and under the government of the UK however it does have it's own parliment these days which governs the scottish issues, scotland has it's own legal system, and scottish banks print scottish bank notes...

So in a lot of ways it is like a seperate county (diffrent customs and accent) from England and in other ways it is like a state..

John


Kinda like Texas . . . .
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mr-mac Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 2:41 PM
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Yeah very... but... erm... cold... & wet... and nothing like texas

Only joking I know what you mean.
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CE Geek Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 2:45 PM
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BTW, Rich, Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom as well, though there is a movement developing toward unification with Eire (the Republic of Ireland).
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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 3:54 PM
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The Union is England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, along with the islands (about 6,300 of them).

The "Northern Ireland troubles" are partly down to the desire for reunification on the part of the predominantly Catholic parts of the population and partly for religious mistrust. Ireland is often represented at sporting events as a united Ireland though; they play a united rugby team for example.
Every nation in the union has an independence movement that wants to see succession. NI to Ireland, Scotland to Independent Scotland, Wales to Independent Wales and England to stop paying for the bloody rest of them to rub it back in our faces (lol)

Scotland is frankly a tiny population of some 5 million who feel slighted by the needs of the 58 or so million people south of the border. As a nation they are vastly over subsidised by the English. Fools like Alex Salmon - leader of the Parliament up there - think that this all a front to Scottish pride and think they can do it alone.
What he fails to mention is that in order for Scotland to make it alone they would have to completely bankrupt the country more or less over night because the exchequer of Scotland could never stand on its own to deliver the same revenues that the English subsidise them with. Why? Is it because they have no industry? No - Scotland has the pride of the UK shipbuilding along with many other industrial ventures and enterprises, including what used to be one of the world’s largest banks until RBS cocked up. Is it because Scotland can't manage its own exchequer? No, it does a capable job and has a long history of setting its own council budgets successfully, including different health and education spending policies.

The simple reason why it's financial insanity for Scotland is that the population isn't big enough to raise the tax revenues to match subsidies that they get for being part of the union. England has a population of 58 million; we raise more taxes, simple. Scotland isn't the dog of the union; it's just a fraction of it.

The second thing is hurrah for being able to set your own dedicated foreign policy! Woo, I can see a lot of world players taking Alex Salmon seriously on the world stage as an independent nation - not.

To be independent, what isn't being told to the people of Scotland is that they would need to open their borders, have a mass policy of immigration -and I know firsthand that there is nothing that is more despised in parts of Scotland than immigration. If the romance of independence is to preserve Scotland for Scotland, then opening up the borders won't do it.
If it is seen as bad that you're living off of England, and you can't properly support yourself that leaves the EU. Scotland will be nothing more than a general political whore to Brussels. Any idea of independence that you have will be usurped by the sheer fact that you'll have to make so many concessions to Brussels in order to get handouts to keep the country running that you'll wind up passing any bill that the EU asks you to do. As a nation with 5 million people you'll have only one or to EU parliament votes to play with, compared to England’s 100 or so. So ultimately you'll do what the Germans, then French then UK want anyway. The EU will dictate foreign policy, law etc. Right now Scotland virtually manages itself anyway, it has always been a very distant member of the union compared with Wales or NI. So much for an independent Scotland if you hand yourselves over the EU!

If you succeed from the Union you'll also have an exodus of nationals to England to keep existing jobs and positions. Half the senior civil service of the UK is Scottish - they're not going to give that up! What about all the Scottish people in the City, who work south of the border? They're not going to come home and get jobs because it's an independent Scotland. If they work in England, they pay tax in England - and we keep every penny!
That includes Prime Ministers too

Yes I'm English, and you know what, it does annoy me that you get so much cash as our expense, no questions asked. Having said that though, I also believe that Scotland is stronger, better respected both internationally and as part of the Union by being in the union. The union is better off with Scotland's participation, skills and strengths and, unlike the EU England, Wales and Northern Ireland do not ask for anything - it's a partnership, not a master servant relationship as Mr. Salmon would suggest.

My opinions are my own, and are formed having lived up there (West coast) as well as down here.

On a separate note, who is who in the photo's?

I don't see an single H/PC in any of them!
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Rich Hawley Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 3:57 PM
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I didn't want to touch Ireland...their feelings towards the British, the conflict between the Protestants and Catholics is all too well known, along with the historical efforts (or interference?) of the Brits.

I knew the Scots and English were now pretty good allies, but wasn't sure if the Scottish ever achieved sovereign status or not.

Texas is part of the United States? Damn...when did that happen? When I used to live in Alaska I always thought I'd like to own Texas...put it in my back yard....
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theoak Page Icon Posted 2009-08-16 7:38 PM
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Very interesting subject: Like C:Amie mentioned, let's see some hpc's and who is who in those photos? This is like meeting our counterparts across the pond!! (I know we desire a certain amount of anonymity, but now, due to this post, I'm curious.)
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CE Geek Page Icon Posted 2009-08-17 2:19 AM
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We've had a few threads before where members have posted pix of themselves. (Look real hard and you'll find one of me with someone a little more familiar. ) We've also had a few other in-person meetings between members, the most notable being when cmonex came to the States a couple of years ago and stayed at TFGBD's house.

I believe mr-mac is the one on the left in the third photo, and Half-Saint is on the right. (Will chiark be showing up there next? )

I agree with theoak and C:Amie on the inclusion of H/PCs in the photos. C'mon, mr-mac, show us your SmartBook!
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