Next generation H/PCs

On the thread "New developpment on hpc" there's been some discussion of why H/PCs didn't succeed and what we'd like to see from them in the modern age. Since that thread wasn't started for that purpose, I decided to start a new one.

Having thought about that discussion, I agree that cost is indeed one major hurdle. Why the high cost? I think that originally the answer was: because the hardware was top of the line: high resolution LCDs, fast CPUs and lots of RAM. The case itself is a lot more complex to manufacture than a PDA one, and possibly even a laptop one, since the keyboard is smaller than usual so there may be need for more precision. But that's something we can't do without.

These days, one can use a slow CPU (200MHz), little RAM (32MB) and still get a workable machine. These would have been high specs a few years ago. For LCDs the situation is also a bit better. The cheapest LCDs still don't reach the required resolution, which is about 120dpi (at least for the Psion 5mx form factor), but the standard LCDs of 240x320 PocketPC machines, as well as the LCDs on WXGA 12" laptops have that resolution. For the larger form factor, like the Izzi Pro, an even lower resolution is needed, and sub-100dpi is enough for its 640x480 display. (Thought I admit that I don't really know that much what affects LCD prices)

So if we stay with yesteryear's spec, it should be possible to create a reasonably cheap machine.

Looking at this from another perspective, lets convert a laptop into an H/PC. A basic 3kg laptop costs about $600 (US price). A smaller H/PC like the Izzi Pro or Workpad Z50, if it keeps the same screen dpi instead of matching resolution (that is, uses 640x480 or 800x600, depending on size), can save on LCD price (since it's smaller) hard disk (none), RAM, probably CPU cost and a simpler board. Battery cost will also likely end up lower.

So as a laptop replacement we can have the following (approximate) spec:
Size: 22cm x 18cm x 2cm
Weight: under 1kg
Screen resolution: 640x480 TFT
Control: touchpad or IBM style stick (no touch screen)
CPU: 200MHz ARM variant
RAM: 32MB (probably 64MB doesn't add much to cost)
FLASH: 128MB (considering CompactFlash cards of this size cost about $15 these days)
Networking: 10/100, WiFi (just because it's standard these days)

This should be an attractive machine for portable writing / browsing if sold for around $300-$400, which IMO it could easily be sold for. Seems to me that people will be interested in a machine that can do basic computing tasks for a reasonably low price, and weighs considerably less than a laptop (that doesn't cost 3 times as much).

That's just one idea. What do you think?

uh-huh. surely that machine would sell (i hope so!!), but i wouldn't buy it
why did only HP think of those users who'd like a smaller hpc... 22x18 is too much for me. my subnotebook is 25x21 cm and 1,3 kg. and it didn't cost much since it was secondhand still has a more powerful cpu than any pda... (300 Mhz P2)
oh and i want touch screen also!

Maybe something is keeping real portable PCs out of USA? Why did Casio pull out of USA and the English Language market? What kept the most made, sold, used, & inexpensive PC in the world, the Sinclair XL from the American market? Why does Sharp, which is very popular in Japan, shy away from USA market? The Sharp Linux driven Zaurus line kicks ass and they are cheaper than a used Jornada 728 is now!

Check out the kick ass Zaurus SL-C860 (discontinued & replaced): very sharp, fast screen, 400MHz XA processor, PCs see the CF drives and the C860 as external hard drives. Not even the newer 466 MHz SL-C1000, after customs, installation of 3rd party English language ROM and long distance shipping to USA as much as a usedhanhelds gets for a used Jornada 728 or a used NEC 900. The Zaurus software is forward useable. The Zaurus is has excellent speakers and superb stereo head phone sound, runs movies and the SL-C3000 comes with a built-in 4 GB micro drive.

Put the Zaurus hardware and software in a Jornada 680 sized clam shell and it would be one kick ass handheld for Western hands.

...Of course, this is just my humble opinion...

--Bruised

I've also found the high costs of HPCs & PDAs to be off-putting. It just didn't make sense to buy an HP Ipaq for $450 when I could buy a Dell laptop for $599. I probably would never have owned an HPC if the railways Jornada 680e's hadn't been selling for only $120. At that price I was willing to try a handheld, and I've been happy with it (even with it's outdated technology). For handhelds to make an impact in the mass market, they're going to have to drop their prices to the $200- $300 range to attract large amounts of consumers.

I think cost is not so prohibitive comparing to notebooks. provided that the costs will stay on the $400-$500 range, i will buy a machine with good specs at that price, even if low end laptops cost the same or less. What are the good reasons behind choosing H/PCs

- Longer battery life: laptops have ~3 hours, while hpc's can have up to 14 with std batts and ~18 with rebuilt batts (2400mah 18650 cells), besides, extra batts fit in a pocket and give you about 6-8 extra hours of fun!, compare that to ANY laptop battery

- Instant-on feature: remember XP boot time, not even the OQO can lower it to <10 sec

- Easy backup and restore in case of failure: compare the time needed for a hard reset and a FULL CF restore VS the time needed to do and HDD partitioning, reformat & software install, even by using backups (Ghost?)

- Smaller size: a J728 weights 540g, the smallest subnotebooks won't do everything a J does in the same size and form factor

- Smaller weight: i've a latitude D600, and believe me, i won't be carrying that one in all the hospital, even though it's one of the "light" ones (Pentium-M). In comparison, my J728, in a bag which has a spare CF card, spare SM card, 6 in 1 PCMCIA reader, USB 7 in 1 reader, HP VGA, Orinoco Silver, 2 extra batts (1 standard 1 extended), sync cable, Socket LPE card, crossover UTP CAT-5 cable, headphones and a 3Com modem is lighter and less bulky than the D600 alone without bags or cables. And that was thinking on a "light" laptop, so I can't imagine those poor Celeron D or PIV laptop owners, which are generally the models in entry price range.

So you see, even though prices can be similar, functionality, portability and ease of use are NOT.

That's just my humble opinion

Edited by matrixcore 2005-04-28 2:05 AM

The thing I believe why people end up buying a cheap notebook vs a $400~$500 HPC is because of perceived value. If the 900c was tagged at ~$400 to begin with, I think it would rock the whole notebook/pda market. But it was tagged at ~$1k (1000, not 1024!) ... so at ~$400, we are talking about ZBay prices and not brand new.

Further, most ppl already own a pc and may already have desktop software fulfilling their needs. Granted, most companies require them to buy a new license for their notebook, most ppl just install it on their notebook and use it, since they are the only one using the software. In some EULA, this is *ALLOWED*. For HPCs, there is no such convenience. Period. Hence, it means a learning cycle for new users.

Next is the perceived value in longer battery life and instant on. Just reading such specs or trying it out for a while at BestBuy is nothing compared to actually owning a HPC and enjoy 14~18hours of battery life. Having the whole bundle in a truly mobile <2lbs (or lesser for the Jornadas!) is again not something one can appreciate until one owns the device. The fact that HPCs were mostly targeted for corp users and equally priced at that high end, meant that most ppl never got to own one to see and feel the difference.

By this time when refurbished HPCs are around $100~$200, unfortunately HPC OEMs are already out of the market (mostly, with NEC recently EOLing the MobilePro lines in US).

Its really a combination of bad timing, bad marketing, bad everything ... except good device!

billg recently (or is going to) demo a mini tablet device for WinHEC2005. The size (6" screen) is very similar to a HPC, minus the keyboard. More like OQO and the likes of Pocketable PCs. While we like HPC for its InstantOn etc, WinCE is still a tough nut to crack for Microsoft, as it means that they cannot expand their mainstream products (read: office suite) directly into this platform. I believe sometime in the (near) future, HPCs will make a come back. Possibly not just with a CE.NET incarnation, but also a embedded Windows XP version.

I just hope InstantOn and flashROM OS is not lost in the way.

BTW, I'm looking forward to MIT's $100 laptop. From the few details about it I imagine that it will be more like an H/PC (no hard disk, for one).

It does look pretty cool! http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.04/view.html?pg=2

Is there a picture or prototype design yet? ...

why do I have a bad feeling that when it does arrives ... they will require you to show a student photo id to get it?

This link says it will have a B&W screen, and orders will be based on 1,000,000,000 quantities. I think it is designed primarily for the students. Sorry Snappy. You still have an ID right? Probably will primarily be for Primary and secondary school students I presume. http://www.lowendmac.com/musings/05/0209.html

Yoldering, it's just 100,000,000, which is a more reasonable scale (check the MIT page at http://laptop.media.mit.edu/). Also, I don't know what link you saw that said it'd be B&W. Certainly one of the display options is projection, which is going to be colour. The other, electronic ink, may indeed be black and white at its simplest, but there's also a way to get colour for that. So I imagine that they're aiming for colour.

That link about the Mac is interesting. I've had kind of the same musing. Shame it's just a guy musing, like me, and not anyone doing anything about it.

I think if this laptops is released in some 3rd world country ... the kids might risk being mugged for their laptops. OR ... some poorer families might hawk them to supplement their income ... ie if their kids were going to school at all and if they could afford to fork out the $100 (USD?) for the laptop at the first place!

Yeah, sorry I added an extra zero.

But there is no need to apologize YoldeRingRing .... if it's zero, it's nothing!

Well, if it is after a 1 and 9 zeros, it just may meen a lot