|
| ahaha.. I know It's ambitious, and a hell of a lot of money.. BUT DAMN! what a piece of kit.
I currently have a Jornada 720, and have been contemplating upgrading. The 728 didn't appeal to me, because of the lack of difference basically, and I have been looking around. The HPC which I have settled on wanting to own, is the 900c (has to be the c  ) Am I correct in assuming that the 900 on it's own, which doesn't have WINCE 4.2, cannot support the connection of USB harddrives, cd roms, usb pendrives etc... like the 900C can!?
Right this bad boy just looks too good to be true, and I am having a hell of a time finding them on ebay (only ne or two available ) It'll be months before I can afford to look for one, but I'm keeping an eye on the market.
Basically guys, I am looking for personal experiences. Likes dislikes, loves, hates and any info ya have. I have scoured the internet, and read all the reviews I could find , like on foxpop and stuff, and found them to be very informative, but I'm the kinda guy who likes too much information.
I'm particularly interested in its ability to support USB devices. (heard someone say they ran a keyboard, mouse and Harddrive all at once via a usb hub  OMG! )
If anyone can share their experiences I'd appreciate it...
...........IB a n e | |
| | |
Global Moderator H/PC Guru Posts: | 7,188 |
Location: | USA | Status: | |
| I'm probably the guy who ran all the stuff simultaneously on the 900C. Yeah it works, but what a mess...cords and cables everywhere. I needed a 6 outlet power strip just to plug everything in. if you need all that, why not just use a laptop?
Remember the 900 can be upgraded to a 900C with the flash software...so if you can get a good deal on one of those, it might be worthwhile to do the flash for another $150 if you really want the CE.NET OS.
If you already have a 720, you might want to spend a few bucks to get a used 770 or 780 cheap just so you can get an idea of the size the Mobilepros versus the Jornadas. Play with it a while and see. They are really not as portable. You might be disappointed in the bulkiness and find that you really like the portability of the 720 instead. And you can always resell them at a pretty decent price.
You are correct though, the 900 is functionally the same as your 720.
Rich  | |
| | |
| Hey! thanx.. ok The 900.... doesn't it have less memory than the 900C?
other than that and the OS, is that the only difference between the two!??? what is the flash upgrade exactly? (a cd, a lil card or what ) and if I wanted to hook up loadsa usb devices would I NEED the upgrade to 4.2 to run them (no I don't NEED all that, lol I am just a gadget nut and I like playing with stuff!!! )
To be honest, I am not a business man or ne thang, I'm a 2nd yr college student with a penchant for HPC's and gadgetry and am looking for something really really cool as well as practical lol
The way I understand it, the NEC 900c / 900 whatever lol is about the size of the Jornada's docking cradle (would I be correct in saying that ) If so I don't mind. I use a bag to carry it round in uni ne way so a lil more size is fine...
Thanx again..
..............Ib a n e | |
| | |
H/PC Philosopher Posts: | 363 |
Location: | Canada | Status: | |
| Eh, just to give you some additional views, here is mine.
I just send off my NEC MP900 (non-c) because of the size.
I'm getting a 720 in return, and from seeing pictures and stuff, I am 100% sure I will be more satisfied.
Due to the huge size of the MP900, I'm still using my PPC (2210 ipaq) as an mp3 player, but the 720 is small enough to fit in my pocket, so I can get rid of that one as well.
Due to the ce .net on the C you might think that you are getting more compatibility concerning PPC apps, but if you dig around the forums a little bit, you will find that the ce .net OS is basicaly abandoned. true that PocketPC2003 is sort of the same CE version, it has additional stuff that is needed to make those programs work. In addition, the ppc software is never designed to run on HPC model devices either.
The 900 non-c doesnt have an optimized OS, and is basicaly equal to a j720, except that the cf slot is easier to access, and that the NEC includes a USB port usefull for a USB mouse.
In my case, size DOES matter, and the NEC is just WAAAAAY to big to be called H(andheld!)PC.
The memory on both the 900 and the 900C is the same, as well as the processor and the rest. The only advantage of the C is a faster (read OPTIMIZED) and newer OS.
| |
| | |
Factorite (Junior) Posts: | 45 |
Location: | Europe | Status: | |
| PocketDVD - 2005-05-03 3:30 AM
The only advantage of the C is a faster (read OPTIMIZED) and newer OS.
Is it?
There are not many devices to compare speed of CE.NET 4.x against HPC 2000 on the same hardware design. Those I had my hands on are quite a bit slower with CE.NET 4.x. The only improvement I did find seems to be a faster gui, everything else in basic benchmarking is significantly slower.
The devices I did these benchmarks on, however, were running a StrongARM SA-1110. With XScale cpu's results might be completely different. There has been a remarkable performance improvement from pocketpc 2002 to windows mobile 2003 on XScale devices due to optimized compilers if I remember correctly.
Juergen | |
| | |
H/PC Philosopher Posts: | 317 |
Location: | United States | Status: | |
| BANE J720 - 2005-05-03 4:50 PM
ahaha.. I know It's ambitious, and a hell of a lot of money.. BUT DAMN! what a piece of kit. [the NEC 900] [/QUOTE=]
Before you spend that amount for a light weight PDA tech notebook PC, I highly recommend you take a look at a Japanese handheld that makes the NEC & Jornada lines look like toys, the Sharp Zaurus line, beginning with the discontinued SL-C860, which is stil available from sellers brand in the box for well under $600.
The SL-C860 is a Sharp Linux OS driven device with a Intel XA 400MHz processor. It is clam shell design and feature rich. PCs, MACs and Sun Stations see the 860 and later Zaurus devices (C3000 & C1000) & their cards as external hard drives. The sound chips are full stereo and the built in speakers and head phone sockets are superior to iPod. You can run feature movies on this serious pocket multimedia device & you get 8 plus hours per battery charge.
Before I would spend the money on an outdated NEC 900, I would spend less on a butt kicking Intel XA 466MHz processor Zaurus SL-1000 (a 3000 minus the built-in 4Gig microdrive). The main third party firm that makes an English Language Zaurus available is Dynamism. There are two third party solutions: 1) an English language ROM (best) & 2} a Japanese-English translator (software) that comes in a $50 diy kit.
With a Zaurus you have no OS software concerns, not with Sharp Linux. the newest Zaurus can port and run the oldest Sharp Linux software. Since Linux kernel is OpenSource and Public Domain, there is no commercial monopoly or computer giant cartel to make newer OS versions that render existing software libraries obsolete. You can run old Zaurus 600 software on the butt kicking XA 466MHz SL-C3000.
Sharp Computer Division will not directly sell in the US and other Microsoft dominated English language markets.
There is a lot of talk about furture development of Jornada 680s through 728s. Its very possible but enthusiasts must be willing to learn Linux and some Unix programming code to do it. We can do whatever we wish with OpenSource Linux OS
& much of the software which is also OpenSource and public domain but to do so, more of us must be prepared to be more like Amatuer Radio buffs (who have designed and launched a dozen plus statellites, invented and developed packet internet radio, & developed mobile Ham radio) and less like part time shade tree mechanics.
...Of course, this is merely my humble opinion...
--Bruised
Edited by bruisedquasar 2005-05-04 4:59 AM
| |
| | |
H/PC Oracle Posts: | 16,175 |
Location: | Budapest, Hungary | Status: | |
| weell the zaurus could be a nice device but it's too small to be a true hpc.. i don't really want to be looking all day at a 3.7" display with full vga resolution. i think the keyboard is likely worse than a soft keyboard on a ppc... at least the ones i tried was worse *for me* (UX-50, NZ70 or something like that, i always forget, etc... )
so this device is just like today's vga ppc's. i can't see the difference (except for the hard drive, that is ). but linux must be nice, so if i wanted to buy something that's the size of a ppc, i might seriously consider the zauruses over the ppc's. (and the ppc over the palm ) Edited by cmonex 2005-05-04 6:24 AM
| |
| | |
H/PC Oracle Posts: | 16,175 |
Location: | Budapest, Hungary | Status: | |
| Juergen, what version of ce.net 4.x was that? it could matter. one of my friends' simpad (strongarm ) is much better with ce.net 4.1 than with 4.0 and 4.2 should be even better. and i don't really understand that bit about the gui, i think it's actually slower (but i saw only 4.1 on it ). but IE 5.5 seems to be faster than the 4.0 version in hpc2000 (on my jornada ). maybe it depends on the actual device, different hardware (apart from the strongarm 206 ) etc... | |
| | |
Factorite (Junior) Posts: | 45 |
Location: | Europe | Status: | |
| cmonex,
there's always some difference between benchmarking results and the performance one "feels". CE.NET 4.x definitly has a faster gui. And the gui is what makes it feel faster...
I don't have a SIMpad, can't say anything about this particular device. The Hoeft&Wessel skeye.pad sl is quite comparable, though - SA-1110, 64megs of ram, 800x600 screen, more or less the same form factor as SIMpad. On HPC 2000 the skey.pad's basic hardware brings better benchmark results in cpu speed, ram access and low-level graphics. You may find test details and results here.
Juergen | |
| | |
H/PC Oracle Posts: | 16,175 |
Location: | Budapest, Hungary | Status: | |
| oh well it's interesting that my experiences wasn't the same. but i didn't have hpc2000 & simpad for comparison, only hpc2000 & jornada 728. so i might as well believe you
do you have any info about comparison between ce.net 4.1 and 4.2? just curious. | |
| | |
H/PC Philosopher Posts: | 317 |
Location: | United States | Status: | |
| cmonex - 2005-05-04 6:22 AM
weell the zaurus could be a nice device but it's too small to be a true hpc.. at least the ones i tried was worse *for me* (UX-50, NZ70 or something like that, i always forget,
I simply recommend that any person considering switching from a J720 to a pricey NEC 900 first be aware of and take a look at cheaper, more exciting Zaurus 700s to 3000 handheld pc. I have big hands but I would buy a Zaurus SL-C860 before I would even consider paying the going price for a Jornada 728
Zaurus devices from the 760 to the 3000 clam shell handhelds are so high quality and so versatile that it is difficult to find used ones for sale. ...And I refer here to Western owners...
...Of course...this is merely my humble opinion... 
--Bruised | |
| | |
| Hey, thank you all, I shall check out the Zaures range this evening for definate. Ahh you know I do love my 720, i am just overwhelmed with the desire to buy something new! (Call it novelty, or stupidity )
Just to clarify a few things from the above post... the 900C is 'optimise' ? hence it runs quicker than the 900 even thought the processor speed is the same!?
and secondly, the 900 has usb, but can it support external harddrives, pendrives, cd rom drives etc... or is it only the 900C with CE 4.2 that is able to do this..
and lastly, if I had a 900 and shelled out for the 4.2 flash upgrade, at 150 dollars, what does it entail, how would it work?
Cheers guys,
..........IB a n e | |
| | |
| OK, I had a quick shufty at the sharp suggestions... I don't like them! lol they may be fantastic machines, but the keyboard doens't look nice, it's too small (yeh I did say too small haha :S ) and i think the jornada / nec etc look nicer... I am pretty well taken with the 900C still!!!!
..........IB a n e | |
| | |
H/PC Philosopher Posts: | 363 |
Location: | Canada | Status: | |
| BANE J720 - 2005-05-04 12:39 PM
Hey, thank you all, I shall check out the Zaures range this evening for definate. Ahh you know I do love my 720, i am just overwhelmed with the desire to buy something new! (Call it novelty, or stupidity )
Just to clarify a few things from the above post... the 900C is 'optimise' ? hence it runs quicker than the 900 even thought the processor speed is the same!?
and secondly, the 900 has usb, but can it support external harddrives, pendrives, cd rom drives etc... or is it only the 900C with CE 4.2 that is able to do this..
and lastly, if I had a 900 and shelled out for the 4.2 flash upgrade, at 150 dollars, what does it entail, how would it work?
Cheers guys,
..........IB a n e
CE .NET has some additional drivers that were not required when HPC2000 was released. No experience on that though, but from other posts I recall it works better with other USB stuff as well.
the nec900 runs hpc2000, and eventhough the unit has an xscale processor, the OS doesnt make use of the additional stuff of the processor (it's not CPU-optimized for the xscale ) and during testing of my program, PocketDVD, we found out that the performance during benching of video (processor usage/memory speed etc ) the performance was equal to the 720. The MP900 has a 400mhz, the j720 a 206mhz.
dotnet does have xscale features compiled in, and as a result will have a much better performance. If I (dont kill me ) compare it with my Ipaq 2210, a wm2003 device with basicaly the same specs for processor, the performance of the ipaq is a lot faster. wm2003 is a very very close brother of dotnet4.2 (only the user interface is different )
from comparing the performance of an older ipaq ( a buddy of mine has one with an xscale 400mhz with ppc2002 ) the 2003 OS runs a LOT faster, so I think I can safely assume that performance wise, the NEC 900C should run a lot faster then the 900-non-c.
USB wise, I tried a few different pen-drives, and also an external DVD burner, but they all didnt get recognized. I think the newer os does have USB mass storage drivers included.
the upgrade is a CF-Card that flashes the NEC900 to the newer os, but you will loose the PIM/Office apps build into rom. This can cause issues with software that relies on these components.
Concerning the amount of software availiable for the 900C I personaly wouldnt upgrade my NEC.
edit:
I got my NEC900 from http://www.techforless.com for about $400 (openbox, complete ) I looked for it on there, but they dont seem to have them anymore, but maybe if you email them?
Edited by PocketDVD 2005-05-04 8:29 PM
| |
| | |
Factorite (Junior) Posts: | 45 |
Location: | Europe | Status: | |
| cmonex - 2005-05-04 10:21 AM
do you have any info about comparison between ce.net 4.1 and 4.2? just curious.
Comparing those results would be interesting indeed. Bad luck I didn't find any volunteer offering his device for benchmarking  . The Smartbook G138 would be an appropriate candidate with rom images for 4.1 and 4.2, but again it's a SA-1110 device.
PocketDVD - 2005-05-04 8:24 PM
from comparing the performance of an older ipaq ( a buddy of mine has one with an xscale 400mhz with ppc2002) the 2003 OS runs a LOT faster
Comparing HPC 2000 and CE.NET 4.x on a XScale machine is another thing I'm very much interested in. I remember the first reports on XScale based pocketpc's running "pocketpc 2002". What clock rate did these first XScale's have? 300mhz? A bit slower I think, 266mhz or anything like that, but significantly more than the 206mhz of a SA-1110. Nevertheless all reports stated the XScale driven pocketpc's performed really bad compared to their SA-1110 ancestors. Some time later "windows mobile 2003" unleashed the XScale's power. So I guess you're right, the 900c should be quite a bit faster than the 900. Would be nice to see the benchmark results of both in detail.
Juergen | |
| |
Seconds to generate: 0.218 - Cached queries : 66 - Executed queries : 11
| | |
|
