Resurrection of the H/PC?

I know this has probably been asked a hundred times before, but do you think Microsoft will ever resurrect the Handheld PC in the traditional style?

Or do you think they will only release Handheld PCs in other, non-traditional forms (eg. the upcoming 3G HTC Pocket PC with a swivel screen and keyboard, or the OQO Windows XP mini computers)?

As much as it pains me to say it, I don't think we'll ever see "true" Handheld PCs make a return.

Instead, I think we're more likely to see Pocket PCs with integrated keyboards and dual orientation screens become more common.

In the long-term, I think Handheld PCs running "full" versions of Windows will make an appearance; they may be using "traditional" Handheld PC designs, but they'll be using "full" versions of Windows...

One thing's for certain, Microsoft have OFFICIALLY stated time and again that they have NO intention of resurrecting the Handheld PC (in the consumer market) in the foreseeable future...

Despite what Microsoft say, I think there's still a fairly large consumer market for Handheld PCs, and it's sites like this one that prove it!

One hundred times... you're understating

What people percieve to the the Handheld PC is the hp specification device. Not even the original Microsoft specification. What people see as the H/PC has changed before, and I have no doubt that it will morph into something new and exciting once again.

The age of the Clamshell is certainly not over, neither is the Windows CE Clamshell. If the HTC takes off we will see more and more of them, increasingly we will see traits which bring the WM release close in line with what we would class as a H/PC.

Having swivel screens, cameras, antennas is not a bad thing, neither is looking to a different [CE based] OS for the continuation of the platform. You say it as if these are a bad thing. They aren't necesarily.
The MDA IV is too small to fully compete with the Handheld PC (on our terms) in its own space. The H/PC as we well know is about a device which afford functionality to the user above and beyond that of a PDA, and will for many negate the need of expencive laptop hardware, the MDA IV isn't quite there, however I feel that as a community we need to embrace the device and a will it to succeed, as right now it is the best chance we have had in a long time to get back into the main stream - get recognised by Microsoft and crucually see some sales volume.

EDIT: CybaCowboy, please use the edit button rather than multi-posting.

yes i definitely agree with you C:Amie clamshells are becoming more and more popular and i'm glad to see it though i don't know why this tendency is there, i'm just happy and i keep my fingers crossed for the HTC's success (more precisely HTC Universal, there are other kinds of HTC devices too)! i could even get one (after saving some money for it...) if it was a bit closer to real hpc specs... oh and swivel screen is a must!

If my original post is more than a sentence or two long, I CAN'T use the edit button- I'm posting these messages from my cell phone which unfortunately, has a limit on the amount of characters that can be entered!

If I owned a computer or had Internet access on my Handheld PC, I'd be accessing this site through there, but until either of those things happen, this is the way it'll have to be...

Gee ... if only phone companies make HPCs ... but then again, they might start putting us on subscription! Not them rather, but some telco firms. Then again, if they churn out decent HPCs with updated browsers, users *would* surf the web more and have more reasons to sign up for access plans!

hmmm ... are the planners in Telco thinking or not? Start allocating R&D folks into writing a proper browser for HPCs!! ... gosh, they take money from us and still have to have us teach them how to do it! grrr

LOL Gee Snappy!

HPC are not die. A HPC is not only base on WINCE. There are a lot of HPC based on linux.
But today the new technology can do new HPCs run Windows XP.
New HPCs with faster procesators are near.

I want to remember that HPC began with the HP100Lx and Hp200LX.
This HPCs work with MSDOS 5.0. After this Microsoft developed Windows and it created a new Operative System WINCE because the new Windows was too heavy to run on a HPC. The WINCE was a little and fast operative system and programs were deleveloped specially to it. But today there are chips that works very fast and low power. And chip memories are more cheap.The OQO is the example. But its the begining too.

No.

Hopefully we will still get CE5 devices in the HPC form, just like CE4. The upcoming Nexio model is closest to an HPC among the announced CE5 devices, so far. But I would wait for a device with touch typable keyboard, like my Smartbook.

And it would be awesome if CE5 devices will be a little more compatible with WM5 (compared to CE 4.2 and WM2003 PPC). Can our admin here leak any info on that?

Edited by takwu 2005-06-19 6:11 AM

Core OS releases are not the answer to the problem, they are however part of a package to appeal to the right user base.

I said in 2002 that core device releases wouldn't provide a way out, and regretably I have been proven correct. The consumer market doesn't want it, and releasing devices based on the core, even slapping CE5 onto it wont do anything to change that.
An OEM can sell 10,000, 50,000, 75,000 Core OS units and it will not do anything for the exposure of the H/PC. The consyumer has shown time and time again, voting with their wallets thar they just aren't interested.

If the consumer isn't interested in the hasstle, lack of native software and drivers, lack of decent PIM and compatible software the magazines don't pick up on it, the retailers and eTailers show no interest and things don't sell.
The NEC 900c wasn't selling, that is why they pulled it. The HPC2000 900 was simply too legacy - aside from the obvious size issues which turned off some users.

There is a place for core release devices, but in order to see it realised in an efficient way, it will require a significany change in the thought processes of both Microsoft and OEMs. They need to address mobile computing as the right tool for the right device.
Industry has the need for core devices, platform releases are not as resilient, expandable or economical in this area, and as has been demonstrated here on this board there are of course end users who want the core release - though a very small number.
We now have VGA Pocket PC style devies, existing larger Tablet PC devices and of course the ideal (at least) of the Clamshell. We now have a consumer platform which can in its own right cater - with the blessing of Microsoft - for all of these devices and with the VGA release, the CE core can, for the first time, operate on a Pocket PC. Without having to rewrite the shell anyway.
This places the Microsoft PDA market in a region where OEMs can tarket specific markets with the correct tool sets for the job at hand.

I've spoken of the merits of this countless times before and for many years, but right now with the state of the Hardware market, the liberal licensing conditions for Windows Mobile and the CE5 Core, and the consumer sector laping these devices up. Conditions are optimal for us to see hardware manufacturer recognition for providing the right tool for the right task.
After all, it's just flashROM

Well I just thought if CE5 core release had more dlls it'd be a lot more compatible with WM5. It's not that wild a dream. Remember they eventually put aygshell into CE4, which makes it a tiny bit more compatible with PPC applications in general.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea of the core release is to include the OS but not the applications (Pocket Office with Outlook) or the interface specific to the device (Today Screen). This was done so the pricing can be lower for customized devices that don't need them.

Frankly that doesn't mean it has to be incompatible with any of the applications written for PPCs, except for those that work intimately with Pocket Office or Today Screen obviously. And as seen in CE .Net, MS is happy to include other applets (IE, Office viewers, Messenger) for free. I just thought MS would wise up that they didn't have to do much to make the core release so much more appealing; to make PPC apps compatible, or easily ported. Even if it might hurt PPC corporate sales a bit, at least they're not losing it to Palm Source or "Gates's worst nightmare" Linux.

So I was hopeful this could happen.

As for the PPC package on clamshells... Well I thought MS was still pretty insistent that any PPC should be able to work at portrait QVGA tablet mode. That means VGA devices need to have a QVGA "double pixel height" mode, and clamshells need to be convertible to tablets in portrait. And they were also quite limiting on the size, so PPCs don't start competing with Tablet PCs. At least that's what I gathered.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be as happy as everyone to see an HPC sized clamshell running PPC, but for reasons listed above, I still think we're not quite there yet.

oh.. why does it hurt MS if some people would rather buy a HPC instead of a PPC? they're both running an MS OS so what?
i'm sure it's more complicated than that, but still..
and real tablet PC's would still be able to remain in another category (bigger size, running real XP, etc..)

The device manufacturers need to include the licenses of the software, and the cost for core CE is supposedly less than Windows Mobile.

If core CE sales steal some of WM sales, I suppose MS would make less profits. However I'm not sure by how much.

And Tablet PCs can be quite close to HPC sizes. For example Acer sells a convertible TPC with a 10 inch screen and less than 4 pounds, IIRC.

they don't have to have only a simple core os. that's just the problem with ce.net 4.x and it should change in ce 5.0

well our opinions may differ on size , but 10" and 4 lbs is very very far from the hpc size for me. there's a BIG difference between 6,5-7-8" and 10" (it isn't linear..). and another big difference between 1-2 lbs and 4. or is it just me being picky?