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Upgrade-itis? (J-720) How? Er, WHEN! "Ultimate HPC" Prognostications Solicited

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HDH Page Icon Posted 2005-07-25 10:49 AM
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Snappy,

I have phoned Sharp in the UK many months ago and asked why there are not selling the Zaurus C-series in the UK and the reply was quote" There is no call for it". I asked if the have plans to sell the C-series in the future in the UK. The answer was NO. This vindicates my point that marketing men/women have no common sense.
I know you can buy the C-series at e-bay, but I am just not confident enough to buy from a grey importer without seeing the machine first.

Frustrating isn't it!!!!

Regards

HDH
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Zapper Page Icon Posted 2005-07-25 10:54 AM
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Factorite (Elite)

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C:Amie - 2005-07-25 8:02 AM

Zapper, you mean like the 7/8 year old REX


Precisely!

Anybody ever used one of these things? How much squinting did you have to do?

Cool, though...
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-07-25 12:36 PM
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HDH - 2005-07-25 12:39 PM

I like many others are torn between sub-notebooks and a HPC. A HPC would be fine for 99 % of all tasks, if the applications could be upgraded or replaced completely with software you really need. Therefore pre-loading a piece of hardware like an HPC or PPC with any software apart from the BIOS is self-defeating and cuts the number of real potential users down to a small pool.


well maybe i'm in a worse situation.. i'm not torn between subnotes and hpc's.. the only one thing that suits me is an HPC... so if/when manufacturers *entirely* stop making them i'll be totally out of luck
they should be more upgradeable with software yeah... then we would be in heaven
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-07-25 12:37 PM
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Snappy! - 2005-07-25 3:17 PM

ok, maybe can we first convince SHARP to start shipping their clamshell Zaurus US/UK bound? And also at a lower $400 bucks pricing... oh wait, the older models *are* even cheaper than that already! The C860 is at ~$290 right now. grrr


oh.. zauruses again? why not get a PPC (with an onscreen keyboard) then? windows mobile is better than linux (stability is quite good too i heard)
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-07-25 12:40 PM
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Zapper - 2005-07-25 4:54 PM

C:Amie - 2005-07-25 8:02 AM

Zapper, you mean like the 7/8 year old REX


Precisely!

Anybody ever used one of these things? How much squinting did you have to do?

Cool, though...


i never saw one in real life but a 2"screen won't cut it for me. it just isn't enough!
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-07-25 12:43 PM
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HDH - 2005-07-25 4:49 PM

Snappy,

I have phoned Sharp in the UK many months ago and asked why there are not selling the Zaurus C-series in the UK and the reply was quote" There is no call for it". I asked if the have plans to sell the C-series in the future in the UK. The answer was NO. This vindicates my point that marketing men/women have no common sense.
I know you can buy the C-series at e-bay, but I am just not confident enough to buy from a grey importer without seeing the machine first.


you can sell it again for the same price if you don't like it so no risk there really.
though if you saw a VGA ppc with an attached thumbboard you've seen all clamshell zauruses (hardware wise..).
i'm not saying they're not cool devices (they are! i would play with one for some days), but they're not any closer to hpc's than ppc's... (my humble opinion! i never saw one in real life)
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chiark Page Icon Posted 2005-07-28 3:54 AM
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I had a rex 6000, which had a touchscreen and could be used for entering data. Neat device, but ultimately frustrating as developing for it was a pain, which meant that there was not a huge aftermarket software environment. I started writing a banking application for it, but gave up...

I'm considering my magnum opus post on this thread, and will make it soon
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Snappy! Page Icon Posted 2005-07-28 8:52 AM
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HDH - 2005-07-25 8:49 AM

Snappy,

I have phoned Sharp in the UK many months ago and asked why there are not selling the Zaurus C-series in the UK and the reply was quote" There is no call for it". I asked if the have plans to sell the C-series in the future in the UK. The answer was NO. This vindicates my point that marketing men/women have no common sense.
I know you can buy the C-series at e-bay, but I am just not confident enough to buy from a grey importer without seeing the machine first.

Frustrating isn't it!!!!

Regards

HDH


well, I guess marcom folks all around the globe are the same ... totally clueless about what consumers want! .... ok, except maybe marcom folks in Jap ... if only they can dictate their US/UK counterparts to ship products ... grrr

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HDH Page Icon Posted 2005-07-28 12:03 PM
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Factorite (Junior)

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Even if they would ship the Zaurus without any software, saving themselves the costs of software conversion would be a great step forward for mankind.

I think they just don't understand that HPC's are very versatile and every user has different requirements.

Though I still live in hope they will relent when the times get a bit tougher and the have to scrap the barrel.

HDH
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Snappy! Page Icon Posted 2005-07-28 5:25 PM
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cmonex - 2005-07-25 10:37 AM

Snappy! - 2005-07-25 3:17 PM

ok, maybe can we first convince SHARP to start shipping their clamshell Zaurus US/UK bound? And also at a lower $400 bucks pricing... oh wait, the older models *are* even cheaper than that already! The C860 is at ~$290 right now. grrr


oh.. zauruses again? why not get a PPC (with an onscreen keyboard) then? windows mobile is better than linux (stability is quite good too i heard)


It is inevitable ... ... Zaurii are a coming ...
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HDH Page Icon Posted 2005-07-29 6:29 AM
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Just as a matter of interest what is the fastest processor you can get in an HPC that runs Windows CE these days?
When the 64-bit MS Longhorn OS arrives, I bet the HPC 2000 system will no longer be supported and loading 64-bit files with Active sync will not work. MS does'nt have a good reputation for supporting legacy systems. I am suprised they have supported HPC 2000 platform up to now.

Upgrading J720's only works in a limited way unless you find another newer OS that is more update and can run apps for a while longer.

The Internet Explorer on the J720 proves this point very well.
What will happen when 3G will be the minimum standard for mobile connections?

The question is were does the next generation HPC's come from. And the Zaurus series is at least more update. Sure the keyboard takes a bit of getting used to, but I had worse.
Is there a Windows emulator for Linux to run Windows apps on Linux?

HDH






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Snappy! Page Icon Posted 2005-07-29 10:00 AM
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HDH - 2005-07-29 4:29 AM

Just as a matter of interest what is the fastest processor you can get in an HPC that runs Windows CE these days?
When the 64-bit MS Longhorn OS arrives, I bet the HPC 2000 system will no longer be supported and loading 64-bit files with Active sync will not work. MS does'nt have a good reputation for supporting legacy systems. I am suprised they have supported HPC 2000 platform up to now.


ok, I must come to the defend of the EvilEmpire at this point! ... MS is selective in their support of legacy systems. I mean, many DOS apps still runs fine on a Windows XP today using the command prompt. Unless the app does direct hardware access, it should not have too much of a problem. So we are talking about backward compatibility support for a system (DOS) from way back in early 1990s, that's some 11 yrs (at XP launch) or 15 yrs (counting to present date.

Having said that, I must highlight the keyword selective! ... in the case of HPCs, they basically shelf them for the most part and there is not much of backward compatibility support, except for the MFC redistributables that allow in some way for older CE2.11 apps to run in newer CE3.0 devices etc.

ok, I guess being selective is not a good reputation as well! ... hehe

HDH - 2005-07-29 4:29 AM

Upgrading J720's only works in a limited way unless you find another newer OS that is more update and can run apps for a while longer.

The Internet Explorer on the J720 proves this point very well.
What will happen when 3G will be the minimum standard for mobile connections?

The question is were does the next generation HPC's come from. And the Zaurus series is at least more update. Sure the keyboard takes a bit of getting used to, but I had worse.
Is there a Windows emulator for Linux to run Windows apps on Linux?

HDH


As for emulation, there is wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator) on desktop linux but I have not seen it ported for linux running on Zaurus as yet.

There is however a PalmOSEmulator (POSE) for Zaurus. I'll post the link later if you need.
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-07-29 1:51 PM
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HDH - 2005-07-29 12:29 PM

Just as a matter of interest what is the fastest processor you can get in an HPC that runs Windows CE these days?
When the 64-bit MS Longhorn OS arrives, I bet the HPC 2000 system will no longer be supported and loading 64-bit files with Active sync will not work. MS does'nt have a good reputation for supporting legacy systems. I am suprised they have supported HPC 2000 platform up to now.

Upgrading J720's only works in a limited way unless you find another newer OS that is more update and can run apps for a while longer.

The Internet Explorer on the J720 proves this point very well.
What will happen when 3G will be the minimum standard for mobile connections?

The question is were does the next generation HPC's come from. And the Zaurus series is at least more update. Sure the keyboard takes a bit of getting used to, but I had worse.
Is there a Windows emulator for Linux to run Windows apps on Linux?


1) 400 Mhz XScale, either with HPC2000 or with ce.net 4.1/4.2 (NEC 900(C), Psion Netbook Pro, Sigmarion III)
2) yeah i'm surprised too that they still have downloads on microsoft.com for even CE 1.0
3) 3G will not be a problem, you can get bluetooth cards and then hook up a phone via bluetooth... i like my socket bluetooth card very much! (works in jornada 7xx and on my 900C too)
4) good question...
i think i'm in a worse situation than you as i would never be able to get used to the zaurus keyboard or to another thumbboard.. maybe HTC Universal (better keyboard, wm OS).. nokia 9500.. more like HTC though, nokia has some problems i heard.
5) yep there's some real win emulator, can't remember now the name (and i don't think it would run on the zaurus)
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bruisedquasar Page Icon Posted 2005-07-30 1:30 AM
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I don't know of any reason why anything Linux would not run on a Zaurus SL-C3000 or 1000. The 3000c comes with a built-in 4-gig microdrive ad 128 MB internal memory. The best Linux programs for running Windows programs are much smaller than a gig. In fact, my copy of Damn Small Linux & several programs fits onto and runs from a 50MB business card CD. I suspect people have become so used to Microsoft cartel software bloat tactic for de facto making us robotic software renters and constant new PC buyers that most folks assume serious computing demands big memorys, big hard drives and a lot of RAM. Few people use more than 5% of the features of a mainstream word processor or 20% of their Operating System capabilities. For example, I have two versions of the same collection of classic books on CD. One was made to run on Windows 95. The other will run on Windows XP. The only reason I have the new version is that XP cannot run the software on the Win '95 version. The only reason I have a newer word processor is that XP cannot run Lotus works, GEO Publish, or Galaxy Lite.

I plan to buy a used $50 Win 98 system just so I can run my Windows productivity programs. I refuse to buy things I do not need or want, just because XP will not run the programs I know well and like.

I do not know of any Linux Windows emulators. Many people mistakenly call WINE an emulator. It is not. WINE will run several Windows programs and Linspire-Linux has over-hyped limited capability to run Windows programs.

Sharp Zaurus Handhelds are kick-ass devices, far ahead of any clamshell H\H available in USA and Sharp targets general consumers, something none of the American market handheld makers ever did. Since NEC recently dropped the NEC900 and withdrew from the niche altogether, there are no new H\Hs available in America. I do not consider that a great loss. The HP Jornada line was a loss but I do not think NEC is any loss. I consider my Jornadas Rolls Royces & my NECs Fords. I own a few models of both Jornadas and NECS. If HP would only have included a larger keyboard in its Jornada line...

To a large degree, what killed handhelds was Microsoft. Sharp has such an excellent line of H/Hs partly because they never used Windows. From the beginning Sharp launched the Zaurus line as a Linux platform, bundling their own Linux distro. The rest of the handheld makers went with Windows which greatly retarded development. They could not approach the Zaurus display speed, quality or wide functionality because Microsoft was simply too slow to develop adequate O/S support for better display resolution or speed or multimedia. Zaurus, going back to the SL-C760, projects itself to PCs as an external hard drive which is a vastly easier and better method for linking with a PC. Again, this was possible because Sharp simply wrote the code into their Linux O\S.

Then there is the superiority of Open Source O/S & productivity software. Zaurus O/S and software development and fixes are not limited to a relatively small group of salaried corporate pin head programmers working under the control of MBA-type commanders. MBAs, like Accountants, are just not known for their creativity or inventiveness (except maybe creative book keeping & report writing) Bureaucracy is bureaucracy whether it be big government, big corporation or even big non-profit organization. The end result is the same across the bureaucratic plane, inefficiency and mediocrity. Risk taking creativity just cannot breathe under a dictatorship of ego stroking brown noses, career ladder climbing, and office politics.

The advantages of Open Source over commercial software should be obvious. A fine example is Firefox web browser. Begun by a lone 14 year-old boy writing lines of code to improve the security of his parents new AOL Internet connection, and completed and released with the help of an older friend when the author was a 19 year-old college student.

...Of course, this is merely my humble opinion

--Bruised

Edited by bruisedquasar 2005-07-30 1:38 AM
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-07-31 11:38 AM
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bruisedquasar, interesting opinion.
there are some things though i don't agree with:

1) it's so obvious you've never seen a NEC 900/900C in person! that's not a Ford category! much better! :grrr:

2) sharp did manufacture windows ce handheld pc's! from the hc-4100 to the hc-7000... mobilon and telios series, a lot of windows powered H\H's. check out this page: http://www.hpcfactor.com/hardware/devices/

3) i think the HTC Universal (with windows mobile 5!) will be superior to the zauruses. except if you like linux better

4) you can connect a ppc to a PC as a pendrive. can't be that bad

5) superiority of open source? sometimes it's true but often it's not at least in my experience. i'd be happy if it were always true but it isn't firefox is a good example of that (that open source isn't always superior)... in my opinion!
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