considering buying HP/NEC/other Win CE handheld pc

I just about remember these from back in the day; I remember there were a lot of them and I'm really not sure which have held up well over the decades. Also some of them are crazy-expensive on eBay. Things were changing so quickly around 2000...my first ARM/WinCE device was HP 3800 and back then I dismissed HPCs as too slow.

I guess now my main concern is batteries. I have repaired numerous laptops and PDAs and really don't enjoy finding/making substitute LiPo batteries anymore. Is there a list of Handheld PC systems that work with AA batteries?

Among the AA battery HPCs, which ones had the best battery life? Worst?

Sorry of this is the wrong place to ask. Its my first post to this site.

Yes - they were extremly slow compared to the notebook pc back then. And every second year a new generation with different hardware had to be bought and programmed.

I didn't knew anyone back in the days who used these CE-devices as an edc companion for all purposes you used those things earlier when DOS-palmtops where en-vogue (those where the really cool office companions) or today with the cellphones.

The ads suggested otherwise but these CE-palmtops were mainly used for some company stuff with customized software for one or two scenarios (e.g. life insurance tariff calculators). Not as the "mobile Windows companion" as Microsoft advertized them.

You may find some neat devices with greyscale screen that can be fed through alcalines. But almost all with color screens depend on li-batteries which of course are all dead today and have to be refurbished. That's the way with these early rechargeable lithiums.

Maybe you want to look out for an HP200LX or HP95 instead? Way better software for getting stuff organized and lasts days with one pair of AAs.
But beware of the decaying plastic case. That's the main reason that a good HP200LX with perfect hinges gets 400USD and more.

Most grayscale Windows CE devices either ran Windows CE 1.0 or 2.0, which are pretty ancient systems. Windows CE 2.11 (also called Handheld PC Professional 3.0) and Windows CE 3.0 (also called HPC2000) brought much more modern software to the fold.

In recent memory, there have been two grayscale devices come onto eBay
Here are the two threads
https://www.hpcfactor.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=20867&start=1
^This one while running a more modern (still ancient, mind you) OS is just a lot more money than I can get behind and recommend, even if the device is rare. I also don't know if this runs on AA or not
and
https://www.hpcfactor.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=20903&posts=7&start=1
^This device looks like a nightmare to use with its keyboard though, I don't recommend that at all.

Thus, based on what you described, I'm inclined to agree with dl1av's suggestion.

If you do go the DOS route, we do have a dedicated forum here for that
https://www.hpcfactor.com/forums/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=52
and @Jake and others have a lot of knowledge on them.

Welcome to the forum!

Edited by torch 2023-07-24 9:19 PM

I think any AA-powered HPC would enjoy phenomenal battery life compared to aging Li-on HPC batteries, peripheral usage aside (PCMCIA usage will blow through a set of AA's). If you just want to use the device without anything attached, two Eneloops will serve mightily. Tenavolts AAs even better. I have the Sharp 4100, a machine our forever-helpful @torch has already cited, along with a Cassio A-22T. The Sharp has a backlight, the A-22T none, but the Cassio has a clearer screen (any gray-scale with a backlight has a slightly muddier display, including Psions; just part of the territory). In sun, both are exemplary.

The HP Palmtop 200LX gives even better AA battery life, as long as the machine is stand-alone or only connected via serial cable to desktop. With my 200LX, I get on-line with a wifi-serial modem (that has its own power supply) and I can browse for multiple hours on AA's.

Apart from power concerns, what do you want out of these AA devices?

Jake

@Jake @hassilon

Another topic for consideration is the keyboard. The newer LiON Handheld PCs tend to have better keyboards as opposed to the chiclet style on some of the older grayscale devices.
There are some exceptions, for example the NEC MobilePro 700. Unfortunately that device is rare and can have hinge issues as well. Of course, the NEC handhelds tend to be a lot larger than the HP 200Lx / Jornadas

@torch Huh, hadn't known of NEC hinge issues. We're all falling apart But absolutely agree: Jornada models have great kbs, and though I don't know Mobliepros personally, I've heard the same, or better. I think there's a post here by the famous cmonex averring that she felt the 4100's kb was pretty close to a J's, usability-wise, but I'm not sure I can go that far.

Still, I like the 4100's kb over the A-22T's. Then again, I make mistakes on any kb.

Jake

Edited by Jake 2023-07-24 11:03 PM

Well I think it was the MobilePro 700 specifically. I haven’t heard of any issues with the other ones.

Well, I finally decided to get a HP 360LX. Mostly because it was cheap (< $50) and in good condition. It has Win CE 2.0.

I was able to find a fair amount of software in archive.org for this combination of hardware and software (Win CE 2.0, SH3 processor). However, before I get too much into installing stuff, I notice there doesn't seem to be any easy, built-in, way to backup more than PIM info to CF card. Annoyingly, Win CE deletes CAB files right after installing them.

Is there something built-into WinCE 2.0 sort of like Linux dd? Just copying 8MB of data to a (much larger) CF card should not be a big deal.

Or maybe, since 8MB--effectively 4 or less for storage-- is just not much space, it is better install CABs to CF card? In the event of batteries running out is there an efficient way to recreate all the lnk files?

What is the exact diameter of the barrel connector on the power supply? I don't have one. It looks like a Sony PSP (5V, 2A) power supply might have the right connector but it's a little bit of a tight fit....

btw, what I'm using so far:

Total Commander (available for free from its website).
Microsoft Entertainment pack for little games like mines/cards/mahjonng (it's in archive.org)
Nethack (for Win CE 2.0, it's in these forums)
ZipCE and FrotzCE (infocom interpreters)
Regedit (SH3, MIPS WinCE 2.0 available directly from microsoft in archive.org)
punzip (search archive.org for Win CE 1.0 Applications to find this and more; a lot works in 2.0)

I'm not bothering with syncing software to a WinXP PC; I just installed ACtiveSync in wine and run the installers (also in wine) and grab the cab files from the Program Files/Microsoft Active Sync. (cabextract and unshield are also handy.)

I mostly just install to the CF card and if I accidentally hard reset I can just open the exes.

Also recommend installing Total Commander 2.52 beta 3 if you only have 2.51 installed (last CE version)

http://www.totalcommander.ch/tcce/b3/cabs.html

Also recommend SpreadCE, supports XLSX, XLS, and open document ods

https://www.byedesign.co.uk/

As for cabs deleting , try marking the cabs read only so they don’t auto delete.
^note on my CE2.0 device they don’t like to open anymore if they’re read only but my newer devices aren’t like that.

Great choice IMO. I have the Casio A20, and I still revert back using my HP 360LX.




First, make a backup of the CAB file, second set that backup file's properties to "Read Only". Windows CE 2.0 deletes the file as soon as its done installing. Use this to effectively restore PIM. And save the file in your external card not the main memory.



It depends on the CF Card size you have/use. The maximum that it can read is 4Gb (I use an SD card and bought this converter/adapter too) and formatting it to FAT12/FAT16.
(eBay)



Just remember if you switch CF Card, you'll run into a program not found problem. Organize and choose wisely where you want/need to install the program (ie Main Memory or External Memory). Use CFBackup to restore everything when you encounter a hard reset. It's tedious to set/reinstall everything again.



The size of that male connector is 3.5x1.35mm and I use this USB cable that I bought from Amazon. That way I can charge it on any USB power brick or plug it in any PC with USB to power/charge it.




Yeah me either, I don't bother synching. Check out PocketDOS too.

To answer my own question about backup:

I found this handy backup utility called "Casio CompactFlash Backup" originally for the Cassiopeia A-20 here:

http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/casio/index.htm

It appears to already be in the SCL but it is called CFBackup.

Apparently A-20 had WinCE 2.0 and SH3 processor.

.

Edited by archival36 2023-08-04 3:33 PM

I actually linked that from my comment to you, and yeah, it's a gem. My Casio A20 uses this nifty backup restore too. I like WinCE 2.0 OS, for one thing the built-in alarm has not failed me. Back in the day when I had my Jornada 680 the alarm is intermittent, and I have to install a 3rd party to not miss any alarm that I have set, it's something with WinCE 2.11 OS.

Edited by archival36 2023-08-04 3:32 PM