HPC zealots?

Made off-topic from
Note: *certain sense* - here I refer specifically to my own needs, ie when I need to write an app for the desktop, Palm, HPC or PPC ... when I need to access installation files found only on CDROM/DVDROMs etc ... I am pretty sure there will be some who are eager to jump on this statement and state their claims on why a HPC is more useful to them compared to a notebook/desktop and perhaps even try to show how its not true that a notebook is not more powerful. While all those claims will be true and correct, it does not apply to this particular instance here.

So why am I saying this? 'cos of late, I really feel that some of us are becoming HPC-zealots, and cannot tolerate any negative or less-than-glorious celebration of HPC's virtues and "superiority". Frankly, I am quite sic of this. As a developer who writes on windows, unix, palm, HPCs and PPCs, its amazing how the various groups tend to grow their own flavor of zealots. Its really amazing to see how SUN-folks will condemn MS vehemently and MS folks will do likewise, or linux>>MS or MS>>linux, or in this case, HPC-folks>>PPC/Zaurus/etc ...

While I cannot pretend that I do not have my preferences, I *think* I try my best to see the strengths and weaknesses on each platform, OS, device, programming language that I use ... and I hope I steer clear of the zealot-ship that I mentioned above.

As someone once said before ... "Can't we just get along?"

hm i don't really get your point. i'll tell you why. i simply don't see anyone here who's such a zealot. sorry.
for example, look at the smartphone votes, no one voted for the last option ("under no circumstances".
oh sorry i see now someone has just voted so. maybe wally because he prefers ppc's to smartphones?

i absolutely agree with you, the only point where our opinions differ is how many zealots exist or don't exist here. (am i just too tolerant or don't pay attention or what?)

as for myself.. i like hpc's but i don't think they're suitable for everyone and i don't recommend them to many people. they're not necessarily better than a notebook/desktop. it all depends on what they want to do.. i never understood why it could be so difficult to see it's all about people's certain needs. that's why i suppose others are able to see this as well.

hm, my opinion about the four platforms (pc, notebook, hpc, ppc) in details:

an hpc is more useful than a notebook but it can't be a pc replacement for me. i have very strict requirements on available storage space (i need a lot and a lot!) and need a dvd-writer. sometimes one or two specific programs. oh and web browsing is perfect only on a PC.
anyway .. there are things an hpc can do better than a pc!

on the other hand i can't really use a notebook. hpc's do everything i need, and if i want more i have my PC. notebooks aren't for light travelling imo. a notebook would make sense to me only if i would be away from my PC for months or at least regularly away for some days. so i need something that's not as serious/powerful as a notebook, and that's the hpc as i need the keyboard and bigger screen!

ppc's?
my general opinion about ppc's is that they really could be a nice extension/complement to the hpc. for others a ppc is perfect. so what?
i tried/used a lot of ppc's already (friends' ppc's) and i won't say no to a ppc if someone offers me one for free or for very little money. surely i could play with it at times. nothing serious though but it (giving one away to me) won't happen in the near future
anyone with a htc universal they would give away to me ?

My adage is "whatever floats yer boat".

I'd be the last one to try to sell a hpc to someone who needs to burn discs on the road. Same thing with their choice of OS. MS/nix, whatever works for them and more importantly, whatever they feel comfortable with is their right choice.

Hpcs are a very personal thing to me tho'. For what I need to do I have found the "perfect" machine for me. I feel very fortunate being in my boat. Other hpc users, with different rides, who are happy with their gear should crow about it, provided there's no malice directed at another user.

I'm also happy to have my beater ppc for tough times and can understand perfectly why people have them. If they want top dollar vga ppcs, hey, it's not me trying to read the screen.

The right tool for the job means different things to different people.

geez we said the same things!

about the VGA ppc's. almost no one uses them in "real" vga mode regularly. sometimes one or two apps are more usable in vga but most of them aren't.
so, most people like vga just because it gives a more beautiful image on the screen. at least that's my understanding based on others' saying as i don't really see any important difference.

Monica, I'm not surprised in the least. If you were only 3000 miles closer we could grab a coffee at a hotspot and wow the crowds!

I actually think there's just this one Zaurus fanboy, and everyone knows who I'm talking about. It is ok to recommend a Zaurus over an HPC (or for that matter a PPC over an HPC) if it fits the specific needs of the user.

But it is ignorant to simply recommend the same thing (anything) to every user every time a recommendation is requested, with no regard to the specific needs of such user.

And by that I do mean those times when a HPC (or all HPCs) is dismissed for no apparent reason other than "something else is better!" I can totally agree if someone recommends against a Jornada based on the user's need for a USB host, for instance. But if the user never expressed a need or desire for USB hosting capabilities, then it is not a reason to recommend maybe a MP900 just because of that feature.

And in the grand scheme, some people are trying to recommend devices that happen to have the set of features they think makes the best device for all users on average, to specific users that might not want that specific set of features.

It is in generally much worse in a lot of PPC boards. I have seen respected long time members, even admins or moderators, strongly recommend getting a VGA PPC even if the user never asked for one. In reality VGA PPCs are not the majority of PPC sales because they are more expensive, slower, have worse battery life, and (often overlooked) have worse software compatibility.

Finally, to be honest I have not seen people here recommend HPCs in this way. Nor have I seen HPC ppl reacted inappropriately to comments on HPC weaknesses. All in all I don't really know where Snappy got this impression; I actually think we talk about our poor outdated incompatible devices with great deal of honesty

I hope I got the right end of the stick, but I felt a bit confused.

The problem with HPCs is their age and the consummer wants the latest and greatest available to him/her within their budget. Sellers often put pressure on the individual to part with their hard earned cash and the problem is that once the users needs change, there is nothing available. I am sort of going backwards. I needed a pocketable device, that had a keyboard and nearly touch typable. My choices were limited to older devices, but that was a great sacrafice I made. I couldn't run Transport Tycoon or Skype, but I was happy as I often type.

If the user wants to tap on the screen, read a couple of lightweight webpages (ones that don't fill up an entire screen) and just basically add contacts, play games and play MP3s then Pocket Piddle PCs are sufficent. If the user wants to type reems and reems and reems of paper (me included ! ), read forums, reply to forums, read a lot of larger webpages (with frames), add millions of contacts and don't mind outdated technology, then a Handheld PC is more suitable for them, if it includes the need to put it in a pocket, then the Jornada brand is more suggestable or other small brands.

The trouble we have is pleasing the comsummer, which is extremely hard to do, because we are all individual. So if it is a trade between usability, pocketabiltiy and how old the device is, I would say for me that Usability is more inportant, regardless of the rest. Why do I have a CE 2.11 device and 2 CE3.0 devices? (actully, a CE4.2 now).
Your suggestions? Agreeabily, in one part of the forum, we need to buy and sell devices, piddle PCs only hinder sales.


Edit, wouldn't it be better to have a chart saying what is recommended? For example:
"Lightweight typing, screen not inportant, viewing and extracting data, MP3 primary use, latest hardware, expandable -> HP iPAQ 5xxx range"
"Heavyweight typing, large screen, pocketable, no MP3, doesn't need to be XP compatabile, prefers AA type batteries or readily available batteries for travelling -> CE1 device, particulary Philips Vero", or something like that?

Edited by Wessex_nut 2005-08-30 8:14 AM

If this is about the Smartphone thread, you should know I had an ulterior motive with that. Clint just got a Smartphone and I was trying to wind him up with it - though it has produced some great opinions and thoughts!

I believe that when a high end user gives advice (and lets be honest, frequently we have to offer advice based on "What is the best H/PC?" - which I tend to get irritable over) they are playing two fields.
On the one hand they have a grasp of where the most perful device lie, what the best on off is ad the merits of the device as a power user. On the other hand, I think we all look to trying to assist users with futureproofig - which is where your example of USB comes into it.

I know when I give advice, especially in desktop systems I try and encourage the user to use parts that will provide an assemblence of future proofing (you wont have failed to notice my 64-bit high horse recently).

In our community, we don't spend a lot of time encouraging people to go one way or antoher. Most people asking questions to the community already know that they want a keyboard equipped device, they've done the research and discovered that they exist in the first place. At that point what's the point in telling them to get a PPC?

ahah, the zaurus fan. it was interesting at first then it got boring&irritating and now i just smile.

ppc: i might know who you meant here. Menneisyys? he always does that.. (recommending a vga ppc) while a lot of ppl don't need it. some of them actually sold the vga device and got a plain qvga. (asus 730... no wonder that it's worse than a qvga)
their battery life isn't any worse tho if they have a bigger battery (hx4700 for example is very good in this respect. HP has always paid attention to that!)

Thanks all for the reply. Its really interesting how everyone thought differently about how I arrived at my "conclusion"! For the most part, the guesses missed the mark. But I'm happy to read that we are all on the same page as far as being a HPC-zealot is concerned ... ... and that no one has pride him/her-self as one! ... I've seen how some ###-zealots on other forums would openly declare and hold up their zealot banner as though its a prestigious birthright or something!

oh and btw, Takwu, I most agree that we have been fairly honest about our HPCs' shortcomings. But here and there, I will get the vibe from some posts that despite these shortcomings, all other devices *s*ck* or something. Of cos we are most entitled to our own opinion, but sometimes these opinions can stray from a personal preference or love for one's HPC into a not-to-be-contested frevor for HPC and a complete disdain for other form of devices. In such cases, they will tend to be very defensive over the weaknesses, despite admitting to them.

And in case you were wondering, its not you I feel the vibes from! ... We've had our talk about how HPCs are really lacking in various areas while at the same time superior in others (like battery life, built-in keyboard, instanton etc). So, no, you were never sending such vibes!

Now, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls (), hopefully this thread will serve as a *gentle* reminder to keep ourselves in check (myself included!) ... and we will continue to rave over our HPCs, while being open to new stuffs.

ah i see now how you got this impression!



maybe that's because we're not like them? it's as simple as that.



it will not for me. i'm free to say ppc's *sucks* when i feel like saying so. and i will not tell all over and over again that i just mean they *suck* for me and not necessarily for others. i know a lot of people who're happy with a ppc and i can understand them. even for me they're not so bad as a toy. so don't worry it won't change into frevor/disdain or whatever. all in all... maybe you just misunderstood some posts in the past.

Of course Snappy, I know I'm not the one... Hey I am the only guy here who ended up with a late model Vaio C1 heheheh (instead of that Fujitsu Lifebook). It did serve as my sole PC for 2 months while I was out of the country, so I had an actual experience of a situation when a laptop is (ahem) preferred over an HPC. And now people ask me why I use the SmartBook daily instead of the Vaio, which is not much bigger in size and weight, yet fully runs XP. I guess I am qualified to say which is better for which purposes, by experience no less

I think I kinda get what you were referring to... C:Amie! He keeps threatening people who got PPCs Ok just kidding. And I see his reply above - don't worry I think people know you're kidding too C:Amie

In any case, yeah we just need to watch ourselves when we talk about the other devices out there... now if you'll excuse me I'll go start a thread about the Simpad killer

You think I'm kidding?

I've never met a more accomodating and helpful group of people than here.

I enjoy how we love our devices for reasons that suit us, not because we just bought the latest cutting edge toy and want to crow about it. So much of our contentment is from our chosen lifestyle. There's no doubt, we march to a different drummer, but have our our rythym just the same. I also appreciate that we can appreciate the opinions of others here.

Let me re-state my opening comment. IMO, I've found better people here than all of the other boards combined.

I think the HPC's are not the latest and greatest, I know that when technically compared to other platforms (Zaurus, new PPCs), they have features that make us pale in comparison, i know they have a lot of shortcoming, but for what we use them, they fit our needs quite right, so for most of us, HPC users, they're the best.

Of course we can all get along. for example, when i say something about getting one that has bought an PPC, you all know i'm kidding. I mean, i even got a PPC for myself once, because that it's the best i could find for mobile multimedia.

I remember someday in the past C:Amie wrote something like this "HPC users are some of the most nice ones". I think that's true, i mean we respect other platforms and get along with their users.

BTW - I'd like to buy a Zaurus too, but they're just too expensive and hard to find