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Velo1 on Linux --> anybody up to resume the project?

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Mesuge Page Icon Posted 2005-12-01 6:27 PM
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Hi, the Velo 1 has been already persuaded to work some basic stuff on Linux, however the project has been on stall for some time. I've noticed that several people on this forum still have or just bought the Velo 1 from Ebay so there is a slight hope to resume the efforts..

Unfortunately the guru of Velo Linuxing Pavel Machek has moved on Zaurus since his Velo passed away from natural cause..

Pavel's web site about his endevours is still available here (incl. bootloader, kernel, ramdisk):
http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/velo/index.html

Install guide:
http://www.beacon.com/~rausch/velo/

If you follow this HOW-TO and have the second option of 4+8meg configuration don't use that kernel but Pavel's instead, I've learned it 'hardway'. In any case it's a good step by step guide how to install it. It worked for me should for you..

Pavel in the end probably utilized that pcmcia connector on the Velo's belly and mounted a flash for ramdisk and network card.

Additional links:

http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hpcmips/howto-use.html
http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.linux-mips.org/linux-vr/ramdisk.html
http://www.hacksrus.com/~mike/lince/kernel.htm#Config
http://www.realitydiluted.com/projects/nino/

+ try google mail lists to sniff some more..

I was wondering is it possible to move the project a bit further, would it be possible for instance to use new Linux VR/NetBSD kernels or even new fancy stuff like PicoGUI which is working nicely in 4bpp as well?

PicoGUI:
http://thomas.de-ruiter.cx/projects/psion/
http://thomas.de-ruiter.cx/projects/psion/screenshots/

Velo 1 hardware:
http://people.freebsd.org/~imp/pdamips.html

This french guy shows some Compaq 2010c surgery which seems to have quite
similar guts with Velo.. (I'll have to read with babelfish):
http://paul.chavent.free.fr/linux-compaq2010c.html

In another thread:
"The Toshiba CPUs are referred to as TX39XX, TMPR39XX, or PR39XX. The
Philips web site says the PR13700 is based on a PR3901 core, which is the
same (family at least) as the Toshiba chips. I don't know who designed
the core, but the fact that it works suggests that the PR13700 is very
similar to the TX3912. There could be differences that are not apparent
yet, but it could also potentially be an identical chip."



Thanks for any input..




Edited by Mesuge 2005-12-01 6:56 PM
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Jake Page Icon Posted 2005-12-01 6:31 PM
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What about the actual machine specs needs to properly run Linux?

For example, I have a 4mb machine, with a 4 mb DRAM card, and another 4mb flash card.

Is that enough memory?

Jake
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Mesuge Page Icon Posted 2005-12-01 7:30 PM
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Moreover, Paul the French guy documented the procedures for both NetBSD and Linux as well as collected an impressive set of links to various data sheets from Toshiba and Philips among other interesting stuff...

(scroll to bottom)
http://paul.chavent.free.fr/linux-compaq2010c.html

So, I hope that some smart guys can jump on it right away!
Thanks

Jake> What is know for sure is that either 4+8 or 8 + 4 (memmory megs) combination work. I'm not sure about the 4+4+4 of yours though..

=>
"8. What hardware will be required to run Linuxce?
It looks like on the MIPS side, 4 Meg of RAM will be the reasonable minimum. On sh3, they're shooting for a low of 2 Meg of RAM.."
http://www.handhelds.org/archive/linuxce-faq.html

Edited by Mesuge 2005-12-01 7:43 PM
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-12-01 9:18 PM
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Mesuge - 2005-12-02 1:30 AM


"8. What hardware will be required to run Linuxce?
It looks like on the MIPS side, 4 Meg of RAM will be the reasonable minimum. On sh3, they're shooting for a low of 2 Meg of RAM.."
http://www.handhelds.org/archive/linuxce-faq.html


hmmmmmmm... i'm getting that casio A-10 (SH3) with 2 mb ram...
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Yoldering Page Icon Posted 2005-12-01 10:23 PM
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I will buy a VELO 1 and... Ask PS to help with the Linux I have wanted one anyway, and if it has Linux+++++
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-12-01 10:28 PM
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hehe you too. hope you'll like the velo 1!
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sophisticatedleaf Page Icon Posted 2005-12-01 11:41 PM
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Personally, there is a limit where you start wondering: "What is the point?"

Sure, you could get Linux to run on the Velo, it fits the minimum requirements, of the older kernels! There is hardly enough ram to do anything useful, and there is a point where embedded systems (as I have stated before) are truly better. The fact is, CE 1 devices really were not meant to take on a real OS.

Anyways, I'll do what I can to help. Who knows, maybe this will turn out well. Linux is pretty tuneable (to a point).

-Ok, so it does look cool on the Series 5 psions. But aren't they more powerful than the Velo?
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-12-02 1:57 AM
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ProgramSynthesiser - 2005-12-02 5:41 AM
-Ok, so it does look cool on the Series 5 psions. But aren't they more powerful than the Velo?


lol yes, much more powerful.
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Mesuge Page Icon Posted 2005-12-02 8:15 AM
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Well, there is a difference between Psion 5/mx and Velo1 but the difference
is not as big if you connect say 256MB flash via pcmcia - maybe it can be tweaked to
almost the same performance as on some of these Psions running Debian Woody

>>
Psion 5/MX/Pro & Revo/Plus:
Processor: ARM 7100 (CL-PS7110) 18.432 MHz - ARM710T 36 MHz
ROM: 6-8, 4-16 Ram
+higher display res but 4bpp as well

Debian Woody/X11 on Psion via compactflash:
http://staff.washington.edu/dushaw/psion/

What runs and what not on different Psions:
http://linux-7110.sourceforge.net/status.shtml
http://linux-7110.sourceforge.net/

All Psions fact sheet here:
http://www.netogram.com/psion4.htm

>>
Philips Velo 1:
32 Bit MIPS R3910 RISC processor @36.864 MHz
4 MB DRAM Miniature Card + 8 MB DRAM Miniature Card

Edited by Mesuge 2005-12-02 8:42 AM
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oski Page Icon Posted 2005-12-02 8:20 AM
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Hi,

Interesting project!! I will follow your progress, hope be documented here, and if you manage to compile and boot a kernel other than linux-vr, I will learn from your experience and try to apply it to my z50(OK is VR and 2.11) and try to build my own bootable kernel.

oski
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-12-02 2:51 PM
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Mesuge - 2005-12-02 2:15 PM

Well, there is a difference between Psion 5/mx and Velo1 but the difference
is not as big if you connect say 256MB flash via pcmcia - maybe it can be tweaked to
almost the same performance as on some of these Psions running Debian Woody


hmmm now that you say it... you're right. same Mhz and almost same ram if you add a ram card to the velo...
so funny, the OS knows so much more on the psion 5mx than on the velo 1.
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torch Page Icon Posted 2005-12-02 4:49 PM
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Maybe when I get my Velo 1, PCMCIA RAM adapter and a PCMCIA Flash Memory card, I will try Linux just for the greater purpose for other Velo 1 users..
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Mesuge Page Icon Posted 2005-12-02 11:21 PM
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tenjeangosi> You seemed to have the right development tools - aren't they all related to the Philips Poseidon family?

-Compaq 2010c
-Velo 1
-Nino 320

Thanks

-------------------------------->
The two most popular CPUs seem to be the NEC VR41xx family, used in the Casio Cassiopeia and Everex Freestyle (and others), and the Philips PR31700, used in the Philips Nino (and others). The Toshiba R39xx family is also used in some WinCE devices, but these chips are apparently very similar, if not equivelant to members of the Philips Poseidon family of CPUs, such as PR31700. There are probably WinCE devices based on other families of MIPS CPUs as well.

Although each of these families is based on a MIPS CPU core, they define their peripheral registers differently. Because of this, the MIPS portion of Linux CE is further divided into separate platforms, one for each CPU family. Devices that share the same CPU family, such as the Cassiopeia and Freestyle, can use most of the same platform-specific code because almost everything is built into the CPU and 1 or 2 support chips, but there are device-specifics that also need to be addressed.

The Philips Poseidon parts are based on a MIPS R3000 core, while the NEC VR41xx parts are R4000 core with some parts missing. The exception handling code and the TLB-related code are R4000-style, but like an R3000 it lacks the LL/SC instruction pair used to do atomic accesses in the MIPS kernel. In some cases, VR41xx is like neither R3000 nor R4000, for example the ability to handle a 1K page size. Both Poseidon and VR41xx lack floating point coprocessors.

http://www.hacksrus.com/~mike/lince/lince-mips.htm
http://members.fortunecity.com/celinux1/faq1.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

Poseidon
From LinuxMIPS

PR31100

PR31100 is is a single-chip, low-cost, integrated embedded processor. PR31100 consists of a 40MHz R3000 3.3V static CMOS CPU with 4 K Instruction / 1 K Data cache memory, w/o MMU, multiple DMA channels and a high-performance and flexible Bus Interface Unit (BIU) and external I/O modules.


PR31500

Poseidon v1.0

PR31500 is a 37MHz R3000 3.3V static CMOS CPU with R3000A TLB and 4K Instrution / 1K Data cache. PR31500 also contains multi-channel DMA controller, ROM, Flash, RAM, DRAM, SDRAM, SRAM, and PCMCIA controller and Dual-UART, SPI and High-speed serial interface controllers. Philips licensed a version of Toshiba's R3900 MIPS RISC processor core for the PR31500.

TwoChipPIC (for Personal Intelligent Communicator) chipset consists of the PR31500 microcontroller and the UCB1100 analog interface chip. The UCB1100 (http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/UCB1100_2.html) provides a 12-bit audio codec and a 14-bit modem codec, a touchscreen interface, and a 10-bit A/D converter for measuring battery voltages and other analog inputs.

PR31700

Poseidon v1.5

The PR31700 is a 75MHz R3000 (PR3901 Processor Core) with MMU, 4K Instruction / 1K Data cache. PR31700 also contains multi-channel DMA controller, ROM, Flash, RAM, DRAM, SDRAM, SRAM, and PCMCIA controller. It is also identical to the Toshiba 3912 processor from the TX39XX family. It is pretty clear that Philips licensed or bought this core directly from Toshiba.

The TwoChipPIC Plus chipset consists of Philips’ PR31700 and UCB1200 analog chip.

I think that the datasheets are linked from that French (Paul's) site


http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/Poseidon
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torch Page Icon Posted 2005-12-03 1:46 AM
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Yes, it must be a coincidence, however, I am going to look at MIPS powered devices, because you can use older software with newer H/PCs...
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sophisticatedleaf Page Icon Posted 2005-12-04 12:11 AM
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I think of CE 1 as kind of an experiment really...what the 5 series had was very solid.

Even the Velo 1 looks somewhat like an experiment, the 500 was much more useable, just because of it becoming more stable of a product.
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