720degrees Linux for the Jornada 720

apt-get update is something that must be always done before an upgrade or a dist-upgrade.

I've started an apt repository on the 720degrees website and you can now apt-get install ipkg for installing ipks.

I've also uploaded a tarball image for Debian etch, but I haven't tested it at all.

I have a couple of other updates and responses to some of the posts on the last two pages, but I don't have time to type right now, and I will make a longer post later tonight.

Great work! But... does ipkg integrates with Debian package system? It's what you told us before. If we install a package from ipkg and there are dependecies problems....

- If we have dependencies already installed, will ipkg detect that or will try to download from Familiar repository?
- If we don't have deps already installed, will ipkg download from Familiar or will call apt to retrieve them from Debian?
- If we install a dep with ipkg, will dpkg detect it?

It's so confusing to have two package systems at same time...

In the meantime, I'm talking with Michael by email to see if he can lend us a hand with the reboot issue...

These packages of ipkg integrate with the Debian package system, but ipks from Handhelds.org do not. The main reason for releasing these binaries is so that people can install ipks that we haven't ported yet, to test programs before requesting that they be converted from ipkg to deb. Most notably, one can use these binaries to force install a copy of X (with the -nodeps option), while we wait for the recompiled version from PS.

Because using ipkg in this manner will force no dependencies, you will have to manually resolve dependencies for any ipkgs you install. Therefore, using ipkg at the same time as apt-get/dpkg is not intended for the faint of heart.

The current ipkg management system stays independent of the dpkg system, and should not conflict. Ipkgs that are installed can be removed cleanly without disturbing dpkg.

More ipkgs to come, and still have to wait till later tonight to reply all the issues that have been raised over the past 2 pages or so.

Hi,

Installed ipkg following your comments went OK.
But when I do "ipkg update" nothing happens and when trying to install any ipkg package I get a message of "nothing to do"
What I am missing or doing wrong?
oski

ipkg has its own sources file, I believe the file is /etc/ipkg.conf. A valid ipkg feed has to be specified in order to use ipkg update. There is detailed help regarding this on Handhelds.org, search ipkg feed in their wiki.

I finally saw this problem myself. When shutting down by typing "reboot", after unloading pcmcia services, shutdown pauses and asks to "push enter for maintenance or ctrl-d to continue."

I never caught this error before, because I usually go into maintenance, unmount /dev/hda2, and run fsck to make sure my subsequent reboot doesn't fail with fsck errors.

I do know that it has nothing to do with the date script shutdown, which incidentally causes fsck errors if loaded before checkroot, and does not unload properly on shutdown because of this error. I will look further into this error.



I have all the tty files present, and they are not deleted on upgrades. My reading also says that this error message "no more processes left in this runtime" is more related to tty files at startup, and I have yet to see any references to the same at shutdown. I will look into this error.

I've looked into this, and this is not a package file. It is the APT cache, which can be deleted, but will be repopulated each time you run apt-get update. I have deleted it from the sarge and etch tarballs. In effect, this takes 12 mb from the extracted size, which will be taken again when you run apt, and only reduces the compressed file size by 1 MB, being text files.

The files only have the potential to waste space if you keep them on but use a different repository, for which a completely separate cache/list is downloaded.

I don't like apt... Seriously. It makes 20mb in lists alone, and then the cache can be as much as 100mb on my 720, until I run an apt-get clean. That is something that I find terribly inneficient for a system such as ours. There must be some sort of way to make those lists smaller...other than compressing them, which ipkg does. I will mention that it takes 3x longer to install a package in a few lines.

Or ipkg. Either of them. We can compile our own binaries instead of using the ones from ipkg. I probably just compiled the hardest one we will come across. I find ipkg a waste of time. Especially when installing a package - it takes three times as long as apt.

Did I mention that pkgtool works?

Haha, I will just keep it to my own stuff for now...

I should get the large binary out to snickersmd soon - and he can do what he wants with it. I, personally, will make a tgz. He, obviously, will make a deb.

Oh, and I learned some incredible stuff about cross-compiling. It looks like I will never have to compile on my Jornada again.

Edited by ProgramSynthesiser 2006-03-01 9:38 PM

gophast! Linux

gophast! Linux



Obviously, I have come up with a name for my distribution. (Still merged, of course)

So, what does it mean?

Give our precious handhelds a second try!

I am still determining whether the P should stand for purple. Get it? Ha, ha. But that would not include the 728.

Edited by ProgramSynthesiser 2006-03-02 1:32 AM

These are all valid points. On the other hand, especially for Debian users, you will find great loyalty for apt, and the fact that people are familiar with it and consider it an elegant tool outweigh all those points for many.

Personally, I feel development should go both ways. There should be a diet, trimmed down system that works with plain tarball packages, and there should be the full blown Debian-based distro for those who are willing to trade apt's inefficiencies on a handheld based system to have a system that is simply Debian.



Eventually we shouldn't need this. I only wanted to provide it because as you can see, we may not always be able to keep up with demand for this package or that package. This way users have the choice to go with it if they find the package they need that they can't wait for us to process. It also allows non-dev people to experiment with ipkg binaries and report back to us.



Yes, and this is good news. We can deb it right?



Making both options available is what it's all about.

But I hope our large binary isn't final. 3mb vs 400kb?



Indeed it's a warm and fuzzy feeling from getting something cross compiled, I remember my first kernel compile and watching it work.

By the way, I just got a Cisco Aironet 340, and I plugged it in to see what the fuss was about with PS's wifi. The aironet drivers do shift the interface to wifi0, unlike the orinoco cards which keep it eth0. This was a major source of confusion between the default config on the base and PS's own aironet card.

The 700 series are navy blue (728 is silver and navy blue) not purple. Only the jLime guys use purple handhelds

It's short and sweet, and now we finally have something to call your compact branch.

No, only the second card shifts it to wifi0. If the Aironet was your first card, it would be eth0.



Unfortunately, the fact that we are maintainers of a distribution makes this our job.

Also, rather than going with only one package type over the other, I would really rather have both. It's just that the debian lists are so incredibly large... the fact that they must be deleted before making a root file system of the distribution proves this. Although, for a personal installer (such as one on windows, or on our handhelds), making packages the users could choose to install would be easier with tgz in the long run. For upgrading, deb would be better. A strange relationship, I guess.

As far as wifi, I am definitely pro pump now. It goes for a dhcp on connection every time, while dhclient seems to rather be run as a startup script. Dhclient also displays more junk on the screen, while pump works perfectly in the background.

Installing pkgtool was a funny process. I installed installpkg and all manually, then used installpkg to install the pkgtools package. That left dialog, an i486 binary, on my 720. I used apt (sinning! ) to replace dialog with an arm version.

I could make an arm version of the utilities...yes, in a deb form for convenience.

EDIT: Silly me. I never even thought of the fact that compact had to do with going phast...

EDIT2: Anyone notice that the P and S were bold?

Edited by ProgramSynthesiser 2006-03-02 1:54 AM

This is only because the lists are populated per repository, and obviously someone downloading the distro from Euro isn't going to be using ftp.us.debian.org as their mirror -- meaning their system would retain the old lists from the base install and their new lists for usage. Deleting them is just a good idea.



I will probably experiment with pump now too -- I do believe that my problems with it before have more to do with having an "unclean" base system. However, the base system will probably always come with dhclient, and leave the choice to the user. Gophast of course can be the precustomized branch, choosing pump over dhclient.



That was the most clever part of the name, I noticed that before I noticed the acronym.