Are they still making HPC?

I was just wondering if a company out there is still making HPC, I don't want to see this cool gadget disapear.

No, i do not think that any company is making the hpc, but maybe some enterprise or buisness suplier still is. I too would like to see it stay and maybe even come back. apparently the PocketPc and smartphones are dominating the market.

Actually they are still making..

Itronix GoBook fex21 runs H/PC2000 has MIPS 129Mhz CPU, 32MB RAM and 32MB ROM comes with 2 Type II CF cards... http://www.itronix.com/products/hpcs.asp
It's a ruggedized version too.

There is also 2 others, which are

Data Evolution Clio C-1050
Which Runs Windows CE H/PC Pro with 168Mhz MIPS CPU 24MB ROM and 32MB RAM. Has Compact Card slot and Type II PC Card.
http://www.dataevolution.com/productsClio.php

Psion Teklogix Netbook Pro
which has 400Mhz Xscale PXA255 CPU with Win CE.NET 4.2
TFT panel Mini USB 1.1 has CF Card slot and PC Card slot. and SDIO/SD memory.
http://www.psionteklogix.com/public.aspx?s=com&p=Products&pID=1699

The reason PDAs have boiled down to smart phones and ipod type devices is that the industry has failed to devise a practical input method. Screen keyboards are nearly useless and thumb keyboards are not much better, yet they add hassle to a mobile device. The foldable keyboard proved a wash. Sure they were 90% of a full keyboard and they are light and fold up but most were and are bulkier than many PDAs and a hassle to set up and get running. Furthermore many owners experienced problems with connecting, maintaining a connection and having to repeat key strokes. The final attempt at a external keyboard is also a wash. The wireless portable keyboard isn't catching on, for the same reason--it isn't practical. PDA applications and PDA explosion will come when the problem random pattern recognition is solved. The lack of a way to give machines to have random pattern recognition is what keeps devices from being able to recognize people from a data base, what impedes development of reliable machine sensing (smell, hearing, touch, feeling, seeing) & what prevents development of PDA human data input technology.

A few innovators, the first an Israeli, came up with an excellent, exciting solution, the virtual keyboard, which is a laser light keyboard with a minature radar that scans the keyboard. US firm ibiz had a working model ready for production in 2001. They even sent out working models to reviewers, who gave a big pass to the minature hardware Vkeyboard. The iBiz model is built into the PDA, has its own power source and processor. It does not drain any system resources and it is so small and light that it does not really add discernable weight or bulk. Two other practical versions are out there, but all three of these tested designs are locked up in multiple lawsuits. One company recently managed to get a working version into production by a large electronic toy company based in Hongkong.

This V keyboard is the worst of the four versions. It just entered the market in the UK a few weeks ago. It was reviewed by UK ZDNET. The reviewer gave it a pass but said she will stick with her thumb pad. Why? The Hong Kong version is a bulky, pricey external unit. At over $180 USD, I do not expect this unit to go far. There are no Virtual Keyboards available for sale in the USA.

PDAs are very useful for data storage, management and retreival. For instance, reading ebooks, calendars, games, photos but this is all recreational. There are enterprise uses and much untapped potential. The medical profession has growing applications for PDAs. The US military depends on PDAs with GPS and ruggedized casing.

The bottom line is that the current PDA market is proving to be mostly a kind of luxury toy. The Handheld concept had and continues to have potential. Unfortunately, only two firms came up with practical designs, HP and NEC. HP also applied PDA technology to their Thin-Client, a light, full size PC built around PDA technology. These HP units are provide high quality smart (as opposed to dumb) terminals at a low price. Unfortunately, HP did not have the market clout to tangle with Wintel, so it never applied PDA technology to independent full sized PCs. A reality we must face head on is that what I call the Wintel (Microsoft and Intel) led cartel is hostile to the application of PDA technology to practical consumer and small business devices. It is not mere coincidence that the Jornadas are built around a Hitachi processor and give 7 plus hours active use per charge. Both Intel and Microsoft products are sloopy designed resource pigs.

The Microsoft O/S and software for PDAs proves that software bloat is not necessary for marketable, practical software. Linux kernel OS and Linux- based Open Source Software proves there are superior software architecture designs that are sleek and powerful. The new NASA and Blue IBM supercomputers are run on Linux and a few ethusiasts have developed linux OS for specific PDS. Linux for MIPs PDAs is still shakey but the developers are an unpaid group of three, not an Microsoft army of thosands.

Obviously, HP and NEC could have continued to profitably make and sell handheld computers HAD THEY INCLUDED CONSUMER MARKETING and CONSUMER designs and pricing. Why didn't they? I propose they did not for the same reason HP does not produce an independent Thin-Client for consumers. Wintel would react and it would react brutally.

Edited by bruisedquasar 2005-03-06 9:31 PM

You're in good company here. For me, a computer is just not usable without a keyboard, and these PocketPC's with their folding keyboards and screens that can be turned sideways are pitiful and bulkier-than-HPC attempts at making them useful gadgets. This is one reason the refurbished 680e's are getting so much chatter. They are currently about the only way to buy a new HPC that has a true handheld form factor (NEC's departing MobilePros and the units Stingraze mentions are more sub-notebook size).

But there is a glimmer of hope for the future as many companies appear to realize how limiting devices become without a keyboard for an input device. But as Jornada 660lx points out, they likely won't be the HPCs we use today. The Blackberry became king-of-the-market for a while by adding a PocketPC with a chicklet keyboard to a cell phone and more of this type of device integration is on the way. As Bruisedquasar says, chicklet keyboards have generally been found ill-suited for productivity-related tasks. So companies are once again trying to fit a larger keyboard back into new combo devices.

For example, Sony may be trying to make a statement by adding a keyboard to it's PSP portable game system to convert it to an HPC:

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000930034371/

And overseas where where cell technology is more advanced, a number of companies are adding HPCs to cellphones. Here are some of the clamshell phones that are only available in Europe and Japan:

http://www.road-gmbh.de/produkte/index_01.html
http://www.brighthand.com/article/Carriers_Confirm_Details_on_HTC_Universal?site=PPC
http://worldofppc.com/HWTests/mda4.htm
http://www.brighthand.com/article/Amoi_G6301_Demoed?site=PPC

There are also companies attempting to take full-powered computers and shrink them down to HPC proportions. Some of the results are both interesting and strange:

http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/
http://reviews.designtechnica.com/firstlook14.html

Edited by Lensman 2005-03-06 9:49 PM

A few more:

Although NEC is planning to stop production of the MobilePro series, you can still get them from various sources. I got mine from PCConnection.com, $720 for an open box 900C. You can get it here: http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductDetail?sku=5571785 . They also have MP 900's, brand new for $869.

The Sigmarion III from Docomo is available via Dynamism, though it has a Japanese OS. http://www.dynamism.com/sig3/ .

There is also the Zupera SmartBook, Coxion WebBook, and Demolux DBook1. They are essentially the same unit, just different brands. Not available in the US, you'll have to hunt for em a bit.

As I stated in another post, I think the future of clamshell handhelds is in embedded XP, not the HPC OS. If the Oqo, Toshiba L5, or other such devices were more affordable, I'd get one.

i agree with you bruise.

i just like MS to be doing my software because they know how to make their things work together...you know, PDA <--> PC

if a non-windows device comes along that provides the exact windows func. then i'm for it.

From the site itself ...


Its transflective!! Not DSTN!! It actually looks like a clamshell HPC locked in the open format, but thin and slicker! ...

hmmm ... come to think of it, having it locked in open position is kinda good. 'cos now when I use my MP790, I have to open and then close when done. With this openbook design, just power on and use!

Only grunt about it is its keyboard. It looks like those pecking keyboard, so unlikely that its touchtypeable. More like thumbboard to me! ... at that size, I wonder why they don't just make it the common touchtype keyboard. But maybe becos its not clamshell, the screen cannot be angled, hence touchtyping may not be effective with the screen flat.

hi bruisedquasar,

you said many interesting things. you could be right (i don't have enough knowledge to decide ), i have no better idea why hpc's died, other than the pricing and lack of marketing (??? why can't anyone do marketing when having a good product..).
anyway, here are a few that i don't agree with/don't understand.
maybe they're not so important, i just wanted to mention them.

"Unfortunately, only two firms came up with practical designs, HP and NEC."

no, not only HP and NEC.

"It is not mere coincidence that the Jornadas are built around a Hitachi processor and give 7 plus hours active use per charge."

what about the 7 hours? my Jornada 720 has an (intel) arm processor and battery life is no worse than that 7 hours.
and about hitachi SH3... it's quite a crappy processor compared to arm.. i don't know more but at that time there weren't any intel pda processors (afaik).. (??) anyway i agree intel could produce better cpu's. but still better than SH3..

huh. imho, this fex21 is not really a good idea! ok, at least there's some attempt...

While I agree in the scheme of input this is the most practical of the external Pocket PC extension technologies, it lacks realy world practicality.
Just try using it without a table (comfortably using it) and you'll soon find the impractibility of the design. While accuracy may be good, and typing rates excellent - when you're stuck on a UK long distance train and have to crouch in the corner because there are no seats, or get a meat wagon carriage where there are no tables, you will soon find the problem.
With an embedded keyboard before now I have crouched down by the carriage door and updated content for this site - thumb typing. I would like to see someone try that with a bolt on keyboard of a laser one.
And don't forget Philips, Compaq, LG, Sharp and Casio.

Unfortunately you have just managed to disassemble your own argument. I see what you are saying however you have to understand that hp ditched the Super-H as soon as a distinctive, Microsoft recommended standard started to form. That being the SA1100. AKA the StrongArm.
Once it released hp and many others migrated their entire device range across to the processor, by the release of Pocket PC 2002 that was the only player in the Microsoft Windows Embedded town. Running Microsoft Operating Systems (Win) the developers were elated because finally they didn't need to compile for many platforms and for the most part consumers, OEM's and developers welcomed the SA1100.
Who's architecture is the SA1100?

It's Intel's (Tel)

So in the Windows Mobile world we have.. "WinTel".
To say that they are hostile to the adoption of expanded PDA technology is absurd. Since CE 2.12 any one could take Windows CE and put it virtually on any device that they wanted.
Microsoft has Open Source released huge swathes of the Windows CE 3.0, 4.x code to OEM's and Partners to evolve and after many years of resisting efforts Microsoft have finally in the last 18 months removed some of the over bearing and most criticised licensing restrictions in Windows Mobile itself so that high level OEM's (such as hp and NEC) can release Windows Mobile on any such device.

Microsoft also have NT embedded and the newer XP embedded platforms on which any developer is free to do anything they wish. While the obvious imperative of the Linux community "It's free" doesn't hold true here with Microsoft. To say that they are dominating the market and forcing people's hand I think is far from the truth of the matter.

Where we can pile pressure on Microsoft is with the way they enforce their will through their marketing clout and push OEM's to cuddle up to the current vision, that is where the PDA market is being let down.
Historically it is Microsoft fashion to get a target in its sites and go all out for it. Alas the industry currently is suffering as we the consumer are caught in the wake of the USS Microsoft as she steams head on into PalmOne, guns blazing.
I believe the same to have been true with Psion, which is why we had the H/PC in the first place.



surrealmonk,
On a personal level I have to disagree there. In recent years we are seeing some very strong lines being drawn in the sand with regard to the future of the H/PC.

I myself would see XP embedded on a HVGA as not a turn-on, but a turn-off. At heart I remain a H/PC PDA user, while the second camp - yourself included it seems want to see them entering the realm of the laptop replacement.

It will be interesting to see with in time, now that we are living in a sub-note world, which of our two doctrines prevails.

Oh and the Fex isn't new. It has been aroudn for years, starting out with H/PC Pro.
Good thread people

I still wish/hope WinXP or the latest incarnation from MS fulfills the instantOn promise made back in 1997/98. With embeddedXP, I believe that dream is getting closer.

Granted, we can always suspend a notebook today, the battery life just does not cut it. Maybe that's the thing. HPCs typically have 6"~9" displays and with that smaller backlight for its LCD, it translates to serious power-savings.

Take away a spinning harddrive with no other spindles running otherwise, and we are talking about virtually only the cpu and ram refresh.

So in some sense, its not really that Intel cannot make good proc that gives long hours of running, 'cos its really the spindles and LCD that is sucking up the juice.

As said above, PXA and the SA chips are from intel. Me thinks its W(In)tel ...

I have to agree with Chris on this one; I don't think XP embedded should replace the HPC. Unless the plan is to have XP Embedded as a desktop companion, then it really is an HPC OS, just renamed.

I can see where XP Embedded could eventually show up in notebooks simply because if the notebook crashes you could do a hard reset and at least be able to use it. If a notebook crashes you are out of luck until you reinstall XP, which can take a while.

One of the BIG advantages of an HPC over a notebook IS that it is a desktop companion. You only have a copy of your information on the HPC, so if you lose it or break it you are not without your information. With a laptop you loose it all and are only as good as your last backup.

I'm hoping the HPC comes back on the radar screen of some of the bigger OEMs but it is not looking good right now. At the very least, I would like to see a VGA or half VGA clamshell device that runs on the PocketPC OS. That is something that should be possible with Windows Mobile 2003 SE.

Edited by dazz 2005-03-07 9:40 AM

Microsoft are addressing the install time ussue in NT6 (Longhorn). It will have a 20 minute rapid install cycle under any system. Which is the high end recommendation for a full ram discharge by some OEM' in itself. Other range from 40 seconds to 2 min to the whole 20 min.

If Longhorn has such a rapid install (recovery) feature, it would be neat. Even 1 min is good enough, compared to the typical 1 hour or more for installation.