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How many HPCer's replied to the Home Page screen size poll?

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Uncle Ben Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 11:45 AM
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Chris/Clinton - would you mind sharing the stats on this? There is a point to my question, which I will make later, in light of your reply.

TIA,
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Uncle Ben Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 11:53 AM
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Uncle Ben - 2005-03-23 11:45 AM

Chris/Clinton - would you mind sharing the stats on this? There is a point to my question, which I will make later, in light of your reply.

TIA,


OOPs, just realized that the count is right there in front of my nose. 200 responded out of how many hits on the web site, how many registered users on HPCfactor Forums, 37X and counting... hum, I think HPCers are asleep!

In the process of searching the archives, I came across a post where the poster was asking what were our favorite 5-10 applications. That was a while back, so I didn't reply. But what was striking is that the post only generated two or three replies... hum, I think the HPCers are asleep!

Let's see how my posts this post generates. I hope all HPCers prove me wrong and we end up with 371 replies!
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BruceHungerford
BruceHungerford Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 11:59 AM
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I am also curious as to the results. If there is a way to see the results without moderator intervention, I could not find it and would appreciate instructions.

BTW, I did vote when the poll first came out. My primary HPC is my MobilePro 890 (800 x 600), although I also own and use a MobilePro 790 (640 x 240).

Thanks,

Bruce
MP890 Evangelist
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BruceHungerford
BruceHungerford Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 12:08 PM
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After reading Uncle Ben's second posting -- which apparently came in while I was composing my post -- I decided to try the radical step of clicking on the vote button without actually voting. It worked. I am a bit embarassed but do think the instructions might be improved.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that 800 x 600 users are the the second largest group -- though far smaller than the 640 x 240 one.

Bruce
MP890 Evangelist
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Uncle Ben Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 12:12 PM
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Are there any safeguards built-in this polling scheme that would prevent someone from voting more than once!
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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 12:15 PM
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Guys,

The FP poll is designed for a bit of fun, we make the data avaialble to developers mind, so it has a purpose. We would encourage everyone to take apart in a poll when they see on on the site in general or here in the forum - mainly for the sake of helping developers.

The FrontPage poll may ask you to vote a second time or subsequently, if you have more than one device, why not vote again. I will look at a way to bypass it if you want to.

As for the statistics, it's our policy not to make site statistics public, suffice it to say it is a LOT of hits, we're up there with the big guns in the PPC community, no doubts there.

Ben, you have the right idea, people are asleep. It's apathy and letargy.

These articles were written during an exceptionally negative time for the H/PC, when everyone was just thrashing it with a cane. They were written to see if we could find a pulse and provoke a response, and well... we didn't.

http://www.hpcfactor.com/reviews/editorial/do-you-love-your-hpc/
http://www.hpcfactor.com/reviews/editorial/motion-seconded/
http://www.hpcfactor.com/reviews/editorial/the-more-things-change/
http://www.hpcfactor.com/reviews/editorial/users-perspective/

A lot of people read them mind.
The whole thing is a mind set that we as a community need to get out of, I'm sure it'll happen eventually.
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Uncle Ben Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 12:24 PM
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C:Amie - 2005-03-23 12:15 PM

Guys,

The FP poll is designed for a bit of fun, we make the data avaialble to developers mind, so it has a purpose. We would encourage everyone to take apart in a poll when they see on on the site in general or here in the forum - mainly for the sake of helping developers.

The FrontPage poll may ask you to vote a second time or subsequently, if you have more than one device, why not vote again. I will look at a way to bypass it if you want to.

As for the statistics, it's our policy not to make site statistics public, suffice it to say it is a LOT of hits, we're up there with the big guns in the PPC community, no doubts there.

Ben, you have the right idea, people are asleep. It's apathy and letargy.

These articles were written during an exceptionally negative time for the H/PC, when everyone was just thrashing it with a cane. They were written to see if we could find a pulse and provoke a response, and well... we didn't.

http://www.hpcfactor.com/reviews/editorial/do-you-love-your-hpc/
http://www.hpcfactor.com/reviews/editorial/motion-seconded/
http://www.hpcfactor.com/reviews/editorial/the-more-things-change/
http://www.hpcfactor.com/reviews/editorial/users-perspective/

A lot of people read them mind.
The whole thing is a mind set that we as a community need to get out of, I'm sure it'll happen eventually.


So back to my original comment - you're a wealth of experience when it comes to HPCs, you've been at it for a long time ... what to you think? Do you think the platform is vanishing because of the nonchalance of its followers, at least in part? I don't know, but unless the same 3 or 4 people reply to posts, we don't seem to get too much feedback on anything. It's the same darn thing on
micorsoft.public.handheldpc - unless you or Clinton posts an answer, posts, by and large, go unanswered.

I think HPCers are asleep! And that's why, in part, NEC, HP and others are abandoning the platform.


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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 1:36 PM
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Yes that is indeed part of the problem, one of many.

Lots of small things can easily come together to make a larger problem. In our chase this has happened and we need to reverse that trend.

The tech users either fled to the Pocket PC at the promise of new SDK's and freebies or went off to do their own thing. Mainly to keep away from the flurry of beginners questions that they have to answer day in, day out.
Picture it as a vibrant community needs to have things in it so that everyone can get something out of it. When, as an experienced user it comes to a time when you need to ask a question and there is no one there to answer it. It becomes lonely - that is why the newsgroup withered, it was starting to pick up a little and then... you know..

I religiously try and answer posts here as best I can to try and encourage people to stick around and do the same. Once the board reaches a critical mass of users it'll be self-sustainable. Right now if I got hit by a bus tomorrow morning and spent the next 6 months getting patched back together; I wonder what would be here on my return...

There also exists an unwillingness to purchase software, and a sense that everything should be free. Clinton, John and I have been over the moon at peoples reaction to SoftMaker. Pricy (relative to other H/PC apps), but people seem to like. Still a great deal.

Then we have apathy, people want things but wont ask, or will expect someone else to do it or the work for them - frequently us. We'll always help where we can, but that isn't beneficial for the community. Many wont reply to posts because they aren't getting anything directly from it.
We ask for hardware submission information to update the HCL with - people don't submit their hardware. I asked a few weeks back for Orinoco users to send me their specific model #'s so I could update the HCL and make it more accurate; no one actually has. But they are quite happy to flame us when the HCL occasionally slips up, a drive doesn't work or the model number information wasn't specific enough (or they didn't read the information )

This one is a distinctly personal observation,
Community grouping is a massive problem. Ever wondered why the writing pool here is pretty small?
The simple straight fact of the matter is that more users will decide that if they write anything at all, it's going to go onto their own corner of the web on a free hosting account.
I have great respect for that, I truly do. I started ce320 which became HPC:Factor like that - but I did it because none of the larger sites at the time were addressing the needs of CE1.0 and 2.0 users.
The trouble is that by posing onto a free hosting account, when there are resources which will gladly help distribute it to the masses is that people aren't getting to read about what real H/PC users think about real H/PC issues.

Information becomes fragmented around the Internet, making it difficult for people to find substantive information. When you can't find substantial information you get bored and give up.
This is a problem that we ourselves as a community hub must be failing at. Whether we are seen as too closed, or to dominant... I honestly don't know.

We (HPC:Factor) are also guilty of being somewhat slow with implementation. There are lots of ideas in the pipeline, but between lack of funding, lack of time and lack of staff things I am torn between lulls of content but no evolution, or backend work with no content… and then the time in between while I recover from each mad bout.

In the same light when other community resources aren't addressing your needs, what else are you going to do? I do see both sides of that coin.

We are a very close community, far more than the Pocket PC community. That is something great. The relationship we have with the other sites (Handheld Addict, Handheld Attitude, Handheld Underground for example) is exceptional that we can build on to better the community.

Then finally there are the more familiar problems, cost of the devices, cost of accessories lack of 2005 models.

In my personal, humble opinion. Based on being in this community and squarely, whole heartedly dedicated to it since 2000. Complaining that Manufacturers or Microsoft are or are not doing x y and z is only a small corner in a seriously disjointed room of corners.
Look at the Psion community, they don't have new Psion hardware, but they thrive.
When we as a community can find that 'magic' that they have which has provided them with staying power - we will have a solution to the above problems.

Yes Microsoft didn't release an emulator for HPC2000 developers, but the mind set was engrained long before that.
We also need to attract more C++ programmers in, Visual Basic is nice but it doesn’t make for viable mass-market (open source or otherwise) applications. Western Developers went to the money and the PPC, where as there is still a vast number of C programmers in the Japanese community, however addressing them and their needs is exceptionally difficult for us. (Even contacting them in the first place).

Please no one take my comments personally, they aren't directed at anyone, except my selt critique'
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Uncle Ben Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 2:05 PM
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C:Amie - 2005-03-23 1:36 PM

SNIP
But they are quite happy to flame us when the HCL occasionally slips up, a drive doesn't work or the model number information wasn't specific enough (or they didn't read the information )
SNIP

Hey, young Chris.*, the darn count is OFF the screen, OK pal! So perhaps you can adjust your little poll so that people can see the whole darn thing without having to scroll to the right. And if you don't do it, then I'll take you off the pie supply! So there! All kidding aside, I agree 100% with everything you said in your response and I hope that you guys stick around for the long run. Cheers!

Happy Clicks!
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BruceHungerford
BruceHungerford Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 2:08 PM
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I would also like to hear your comments on why the HPC platform is in such serious trouble. (BTW, I had previously read the editorials/commentaries you referenced.) In the meantime, here are a few of my comments.

1) The percentage of the US population that is "PDA aware" -- i.e., really understands the uses of any PDA -- seems to be shockingly low.

This has been driven home to me this semester. I am a professor of information systems and am teaching three sections of the introduction to information systems course that all business majors at my university are required to take. Out of roughly 100 students, only seven or eight apparently use any PDA, despite how useful such a device is for students in keeping up with assignments, scheduling group meetings, etc. I would note that these are BUSINESS students, who are supposed to be interested in efficient ways to get tasks done. When I talk with members of the general public and even my non-IS colleagues, the numbers seem to be no better.

2) I think there is a strong element of technophobia or even hostility to technology in the general populace. This perception is based on my interactions with non-IS students, members of the general population, observation of political controversies, etc.

3) Items #1 and #2 would seem to limit the total market for PDAs in general. I would note that virtually all my students, colleagues, and neighbors use cell phones, but almost none of them use the PDA functionality (except to play games).

4) The situation in Japan and some other countries seems to be much different, but I am not in a position to comment on these.

5) With regard to the HPC, virtually no one I have spoken with even realizes the form-factor even exists. I see this as a TOTAL failure of marketing. When was the last time you saw an advertisement for an HPC? Outside of a specialty magazine or newsletter?

I think the following story may be instructive.

My personal laptop is an IBM TransNote. This is a 600 MHz Pentium III device with a standard keyboard, a 10.4 inch touchscreen that can be used as a standard screen or as a tablet, and a paperpad unit that automatically transmits writing to the computer where it can be manipulated, emailed, etc. Think of it as the predecessor to to the convertible tablet PC.

IBM spent millions of dollars developing the TransNote and then spent virtually nothing marketing it. When it came out (around 2000), the price was about US$3,000, which was $300-$500 more than conventional IBM laptops with similar specs. No attempt was made to explain to purchasing managers why they should spend more money for a TransNote or make it available to corporate employees. No attempt was made to advertise directly to senior executives who could specify the unit they wanted. No attempt was made to market to lawyers or architects who could clearly use its capabilities and often had the independence to get what they wanted. No attempt was made to advertise to professors (who might have had the money) or students (who probably didn't), who could have really used the TransNotes' capabilities.

As you might imagine, despite winning a number of awards, the TransNote was a commercial failure. In a way this was good -- I bought mine from TigerDirect for about $700 and today one in good condition can often be found on eBay for $400-$600. However, the "failure" of the TransNote is often given as one of the reasons IBM never produced an actual tablet PC.

6) I am a technology person, not a marketer, but I am increasingly convinced that without good marketing "new" products and services rarely achieve the "mind share" necessary for commercial success. Could NEC or HP made a success of the HPC? I think yes -- though I am concerned about technophobia -- but only by smart, aggresive marketing campaigns that taught people why they NEEDED an HPC. And, remember, people purchase BENEFITS, not features.

Perhaps, PalmOne/Handspring is smart to move to smartphones. Perhaps, it is easier to convince people to pay for additional benefits associated with a product they already understand. I sometimes think the future of the HPC is with Nokia and the 9500 and its followups.

I look forward to hearing comments from all Forum members.

Bruce
MP890 Evangelist
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vjurkas Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 4:57 PM
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I am trying to look at it from practical point of view. Why would one want to have a HPC device? Or, let's try to look around. Mobile phones! Why? They are fancy, you can send SMS or MMS, download (or even compose) melodies, take pictures with built-in cameras... Who is the target population? Students, high school or even primary school youngsters. What is important? Fun, games, fashion. How many of them are using their PDAs/mobile phones for professional use? A few.

I am afraid that the only way for HPC's survival is a killer application (sounds familiar?). So, if we or anyboy else in the world can find an original way of use of the HPC - it would help a lot. It will probably be a niche market and not a mass market. So, let us ask ourselves a question: Who and for what purpouse is using a HPC? Next question could be: Is there a substitute? If the answer is NO - we are on a good way.

Let me start with myself. I needed a device which will keep me informed on the road and on the sea, small enough to carry it in a pocket. So, internet access + possibility of typing longer texts. Substitute? I am afraid, yes. PPC + keyboard.
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C:Amie Page Icon Posted 2005-03-23 6:35 PM
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Uncle Ben,

I guess you're viewing on the H/PC right?

Alas we don't have a version of the site optimised for the H/PC (yet) it's on the cards. For the time being though, I'm afraid there isn't much I can do

Sorry.

Great thread here people! I'd love to know what you all think we as a community and we as this site can do to make things better.
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-03-24 7:04 PM
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only one comment:

"We ask for hardware submission information to update the HCL with - people don't submit their hardware."

i already submitted two. neither of them is in the hcl since then (weeks and months)...
anyway... i'm really trying to be an active HPC user
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sophisticatedleaf Page Icon Posted 2005-03-24 9:22 PM
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So you want to be hit by a bus...
I thought you didn't want to ask for funding.

Ok, now onto my rant. You CAN'T expect something to be done, no matter how much you WANT it. That is how things die in the computer world. It rarely happens that someone comes along and gets everything moving - getting it to the point of where it should be. I remember the earlier months of this forum and feeling pretty lonely when some posts were not able to be answered. Pretty much, C:Amie, you were answering them all.

As far as advanced users, I don't know where we are with that. Out of the 300+ users here, we must have a bunch of qualities and expertise that we don't know that we have. It may show up in time, but it may not. WE are the minority. Unlike many others, we have to struggle to get what we want. PPC users have their web browser, don't they? They have it easy. But we can not sit on our butts and hope it gets done. That is the quickest route to failure.. If we all work together, and do what we need to be done, we can get there. Otherwise, we can't.

Now as far as active users. Whether a lot of users here want to believe it or not, I got a lot of threads started on here, and helped out a lot. But everyone knows I am leaving. Will the slack be picked up after I leave by more *very* active users, or will activity dwindle? On forums you want activity, just so things keep moving. We don't want this to become the newsgroup. Nothing happens there. It IS dead. It's glory is stuck in the past. That is why this forum was made. (Thanks C:Amie, and the other admins who I don't know )

Does everyone want the HPC to get out there being mainstream (or BIGGER) with the PPC or not?
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cmonex Page Icon Posted 2005-03-24 10:48 PM
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ProgramSynthesiser - 2005-03-25 3:22 AM

Does everyone want the HPC to get out there being mainstream (or BIGGER) with the PPC or not?


YES!
it's enough for me if it became more supported officially than now ... if 10-20% of the users bought a hpc instead of a ppc... maybe that would be enough... or not?
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