Do you like your HPC or not?!

Ok, if anyone here has gone through this site and others, or just gotten out of their box sometime in the past 5 years, they have seen the death of the HPC come. First the support began to disappear, then the sites, and after that the products and any know existence of these devices. Now look around, just on the front page of this site with the news. In one month, more software has been cut off, the LAST REMAINING HPC WAS OFFICIALLY DISCONTINUED, and this is continuing.

Every time there is a plea for the community to come together and to get these products to return, THEY FAIL. They ignore it. They expect everything to just continue. WELL IT TAKES WORK TO CODE SOFTWARE. It takes money, it takes time. It needs a community that works together. WELL THIS IS NOT THE FIRST COMMUNITY AND IT IS HAPPENING AGAIN

We are all here together, and we are talking, but what has been done? C:Amie, has anything been added to the HCL lately? Doubtful. What about the discontinued software threads. They have around 10 replies. Thats it. YOU CAN'T IGNORE WHAT IS HAPPENING. The last of the developers are disappearing. Sure, a few more are coming, when I come back to this forum I plan to be one too. But I won't be able to do everything. THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO DO EVERYTHING And you know what? We won't get anywhere unless if we finally get to work. THIS IS NOT THE PPC. THE ONLY WAY TO GET ANYWHERE IS TO FIGHT, TO PUSH, AND TO WORK. C:Amie, where is that whip. We need it.

I don't know what it will take to get us together, but we had BETTER NOT FAIL THIS TIME. What development has been done on that oh-so-wanted web browser? Has there even been talk with the developers lately? WHAT HAS BEEN DONE? Sure, we have gotten a community together. We have accomplished little things. But what I was pushing 5 months ago still hasn't been done. Essentially NOTHING has been done. A group of rogue programmers cannot pull this off. WE NEED A COMMUNITY. We need to do this together, we need to get money, petitions, whatever we need to those developers, AND TO SHOW MICROSOFT THAT WE EXIST AND SHOULD BE NOTICED.

Look around this site and read the pages on this stuff. READ THIS: http://www.hpcfactor.com/reviews/editorial/04072001.asp

That was 2001! Nothing has been done since then. FOUR YEARS. Things are only going to get worse everyone. Without the push nothing will be done. We will become the newsgroup. Just because this site happens to be in its golden age, does not mean that the HPC will be revived. Do we want it to silently completely die, and be left with what it has in rom? This site is all we have. We might as well make use of it. WHO IS READY TO TAKE ON MICROSOFT? I AM.

Think about it. If the administrators hadn't worked so hard to pull this site off, what would happen to the HPC community? It would be a memory. IT WOULD BE GONE. A small group of people had to do the work. Well now because of them we have 372 members. And about 100 of them DON'T EVEN POST! And out of that, there are only about maybe 40 members that do anything at all. There are 2 high posters. There is 1 admin that spends a large amount of his time answering questions. Thats it.

We need to get started on that web browser. We need to get those petitions with OVER 200 posts. I would like to see more. We need to buy software. Yes, I know that my amount of bought software for the HPC is VERY slim. But that is a personal problem, and I am going to have to figure out a way to get the money to the developers to buy their software. But what about everyone else? If you can buy the software, and would find it useful, DO IT. WE NEED TO SHOW THE COMPANIES THAT THERE IS A GOOD REASON FOR THEM TO DEVELOP FOR THE HPC! We can! I know it, you all know it. Now lets get started. NO EXCUSES, THERE ARE NONE.

DO YOU LIKE YOUR HPC OR NOT?!

Edited by ProgramSynthesiser 2005-04-03 3:25 AM

I had better see at least 8 pages of replies to this thread. Whether it is you all mad at what I said or whatever. I WANT TO SEE THE COMMUNITY.

EDIT: Post 700. I hope it does not go in vain.

2nd EDIT: C:Amie, this definitely goes in General. I would like to see guest post in here too. I want to see the whole community post in here! I came to this site, and maybe it is time that I do something. Well how about getting this community together! I will not back down, I will not forget. I will keep pushing until I see something! Then I will leave and come back in some future time. BUT I WILL NOT LEAVE UNTIL I SEE SOMETHING DONE.

Edited by ProgramSynthesiser 2005-04-03 3:35 AM

Hey Program-S,

Nice article.

I think soon something good will be announced. And here's what I mean by good:
1) A device of HPC formfactor.
2) Runs Microsoft compatible OS and software.
3) Price Efficient (around $500)

HPC's based on Windows CE 4.1 and earlier versions have to die. And they will. There's nothing we can do. Not even buying software. No one will keep coding for out-dated hardware.

HPC as it is now can serve me better than any PPC out there. But being the greedy geek that I am, I want more. There is nothing wrong with that, but it's not gonna be with the current HPC CE devices.

We are going to have to wait. And maybe while we are waiting we can sign few petitions or such...

I will fight for a Magneto HPC, but I will not fight to keep the current HPC alive. It will have to die.

And I hope C:Amie has plans in case a device functionally similar to HPC was introduced, but the HPC name died. Will C:Amie change the name of the website? You always have the factor suffix I hope!!

Things like the JVC MiniNotes will live out HPC's they run normal Windows (XP Pro). But even they will die soon JVC only brought out 2 models and that was about 2-3 years ago. Your right ProgramSynthesiser we need to show Microsoft that we exist but unless there are about 1000 of us or more they won't even care.

This WebBrowser all we need is a .dll or .ocx like that htmlview thing. Does Firefox have one? We could make firefox for HPC .

Nick

Why not fight? We can update the HPC, and at the moment I consider HPC 2000 to be perfect. It just needs software, and a few updates. We might as well do what we can to keep the developers around, as we don't want this to turn into Mac OS, do we?

-Thanks for the compliment msafi

--I'm still going to stick around until something is done.

I think HPC 2000 Perfect two. But what updates do you think we need? With the HPC there's no Virus worry (yet). So I think we just need software. WebBrowser first (borrow parts of Firefox ) Thats the advantage of firefox its open source I have created web browsers before in Visual Basic all we need to create is a dll or ocx to handle everything and there we go one nice web browser, little code, small application = about 300 happy Jornada users .

Nick

Hahaha, funny. Yeah, it is about 5 clicks to make a web browser with the Linux allternative to Visual Basic. (Forgot the name, but it is in my latest issue of Linux Format) Yeah, I am serious it is only about 5 clicks. But I think that we would need to make it more efficient than Visual, if we want it to run fast on these things, especially CE 2 devices. (CE 1 is dead I admit it )

We need to update the network certificates, for the Jornada's the isp phone #'s (I am working on that, I almost have all of Yahoo Dial now), and there are probably some other little things that could be updated. But the only things really out of date are the network/web browser apps. Office and everything else are ok, except for the fact that Outlook NEVER WORKED. That I think is a dll problem that may be fixable. Any ideas?

-Lets see some more posts!

For everyone in the Uk I'm setting up a VISP for dial-up soon so if anyones intrested email me It will definatly work with Windows CE.

PIE is definetly CE's weak point. Outlook worked for me ????

Network Certificates????

CE 1 IS DEAD. Basicly only HPC Pro and HPC 2000 still live.

Nick

well ... I did two threads with request for HPC users to "vote" for 1) NetFront Browser update and 2) SmartBook G138 HPC (TFT, WinCE.NET4.2, SA200Mhz) and what happens? Zilt ... except for some regular posters, the rest are either very content with their current HPC with its crappy PIE or they just am too busy or missed the thread.

As for hw vendors, HP (long ago) and NEC is out of the HPC market already ... PSION just keep hoping to cash in on the corporate users, SmartBook (from China) just refuse to even respond to emails even for volume requests.

So what choice do we have? There is only that many Jornadas and MobilePro a person can own!

I guess that's the way this world is. Impermanent. Subject to change it is. That HPCs come about is change. That it pass into a page of history is also change. We cannot just embrace one and deny the other.

So, maybe we should start getting Sharp Zaurus? ... hahahaha

Hey, PS, nice article.
However, there are changes going on. C:AMIE convinced me to do something for the HPC Community, and it resulted in me stepping over from ppc to hpc.

To answer your question, NO, i'm not happy with my HPC.

Sure, the movies now look better then ever, and as we speak I'm using my software for making some true widescreen movies for the NEC(900) but other then that, the HPC has not done me any good.
On the 2210 ipaq, currently developped stuff works, and they keep working on it. However, even the simple stuff that I try on my device usualy doesnt. (HPC DOOM for example, there are numerous ports that claim to work, but the cool ones that use the fullscreen dont work, Other things are made for other processor types and all, and it's anoying.

I finaly found a programming lan guage that I can at least get into, but it takes time. eVB is pretty much the same as VB6, and it's not too hard to play with, but so far I havent had much success, but I had some stuff made with vb work on a ce2.11 emulator.
I'm not satisfied with the way this is going, but hopefully I can make something happen.

Maybe the development part of this site needs to be revived again, so that active developpers can start doing something about this.

<p>Good article!  </p><p>Look, software developers have and will continue to abandon the platform because HPCs don't sell and other "gadgets" do - pure and simple.  </p><p>There is all sorts of good HPC applications out there, developed at great expense I might add, that have simply been snubbed by the HPC community at large.  Instead of buying what's out there, thus encouraging developers to continue to support the platform, HPCers are seemingly more interested in hacking PPC applications to make them work on their device or canvassing for more innovations that will gather dust - again because (1) HPCers don't buy software; and (2) HPCs don't sell.</p><p>I agree with <em>msafi</em> - there is no doubt in my mind that the platform is dead.</p><p>Fight?  Fight for what!  I can't help it if HPCs don't sell.  And if consequently software developers look the other way, who can blame them?  I can't help that either, can I?  </p><p>As HPC fans, if we're serious about supporting the platform and casting a clear message to software developers, we ought to get out there and show them that we mean business. We have to buy their applications and updates.  If there were any chance of salvaging the platform I think this would undeniably be a step in the right direction.  I have certainly done my share over the years and will continue to do so. But you know what, I'm not holding my breath - the stagnation in the HPC market has been with us for years and I don't see that situation changing anytime soon, certainly not soon enough to salvage the platform.</p><p>Frankly, I am surprised, and thankful, that the likes of SoftMaker, Conduits, Resco and a few others continue to support the platform.  They do so, only because they already have the SDK down pat, hence they can update previous code with relative ease.  But I don't think we can expect a whole lot in terms of innovations for the HPC platform.</p><p>For a moment, I thought that the MobilePro 900<strong>C</strong> was going to inject new life into the HPC platform.  I bet NEC was counting on it too!  A flop, a total flop, indeed a performance reminiscent of HP, first out the gate with its HPC2000 Jornada 720!  Both NEC and HP were trying to sell their wares at the $1000 mark, hoping to gain market share (I guess); when the competition, even from within, was selling PPCs like hot cakes at half the price.  I know, I know, I sound like a broken record ... what can I say, it comes with the grey hair (for what's left of it.)</p><p>I think <em>msafi</em> is right on again in his outlook.  Remember the HP95LX, 100LX, 200LX .... what a success that was!  A real computer, using desktop OS and desktop applications, in part.  Who wouldn't buy one of those form factors with WindowsXP built in and OfficeXP.  I too will be waiting impatiently for that announcement <em>msafi.</em></p><p>Cheers!</p><p />

I absolutely agree with Uncle Ben.
But if we as the HPC community want to get some more use out of our aging devices, we would need to do it for ourselves.
There is no money anymore in developping applications with focus on HPC. There are too few of us that own the devices, compared to the ppc's and other stuff out there, and since the manufacturers aint gonna do anything with it anymore, we ourselves have to make the best of it.
Program-ideas I am playing with at the moment for the HPC will mostly just exist to take care of my anoyances (or lack of posibilities) and as of such, they will most likely just be simple, opensource or both. I just hope I can keep up my interest.

Hey, Chris.*, what the heck happened with my last post - all the formatting didn't stick, how come?

If HPCs do not sell, please explain why I do not dare try to do research at any of the local libraries with my J 680? I have to go (University of Michigan, Wayne State, EMU) early AM on Saturday or Sunday so I am not constantly interrupted by students wanting to see my 680 and they all say the same thing that they did not know these things existed. Then, they mention the Thinkpad or Compaq notebook their parents gave them to take to school and how they rarely use it because its a hassle to carry around, setup and use.

There is no reason to conclude price is a problem. I see young people everywhere with $500 Ipods. All they do is play MP3 format music & a new high end model stores and displays photos. The li-ion battery is not user replaceable and you have to use headphones

I practically sold out usedhandhelds stock of NEC 780s by telling students they had them for $129, no S\H. I asked people: "would you buy a handheld rather than a lug-a-bout at original HPC retail price?" They reply they would because their lug-a-bout cost more and the handhelds come with so much built-into them. Many say they would sell their PDA, which they admit is rather useless for their school purposes. I am told a lot of students have $500 HP & Dell PDAs, which for most people are little more than toys.

Clearly, no clamshell handheld maker has ever focused on the consumer market. Consumers cannot buy something that they know nothing about.

NEC, Compaq, HP --all have excellent marketing departments. So, the questions is more like 'what kept HPC makers from marketing broadly in USA?' Japanese consumers know about handhelds and so do Aussie and Brit college students and teachers.

By the way, Clamshell Handhelds are alive and well in Asia and to lesser extent in Europe. They are Korean and Japanese made. Sharp Zaurus models are down right exciting compared to what was sold here. Check out the specs and pricing of the no longer made Zaurus SL-C860. What a gem! Users report easily running several programs at once. The Zaurus C700 was a gem also. The screen rotates and folds back against the base of the unit. Has a fast Japanese processor (NEC I think)

I am reluctant to mention Microsoft or Bill Gates as brand loyalty to them tends to be extremely emotional. I find there is some risk of physical danger from too openly criticizing Microsoft. How did MS get this emotional loyalty? Does a two billion a year TV advertising budget explain anything? Can a person be both Democrat and Republican? Gates "donates" 240 million a year to each Party. Intel founder, Chase, "donates" 140 million to each Party. What is that about? If you are interested in the rational debate over MS see: [kmfms.com], the GNU main site or a Richard Stallman posted essays site.

I recently decided to look to Japan and Korea from now on for handheld PCs. Innovation and cost efficiency is possible there. Research the Zaurus and the cool things available to Brits and Aussies from US firms, not available to us in the USA.
How? zdnet UK & zdnet AU

I strongly believe that if we are patient, soon we will have exciting choices from Japan and China and they may well be Linux operated and Hitachi and NEC driven.

...Of course, this is entirely in my humble opinion

--Bruised

Edited by bruisedquasar 2005-04-03 12:03 PM

You're quite right, price was not the only issue, but failure to cater to the masses, absolutely right.

You're also right that a Handheld PC never fails to draw attention - because they are indeed rare. My point exactly.

You know, I bought my first Jornada (a 320LX that was back then, the Jornada name wasn't out yet) at a local store, in a major mall. I went back to that same store, maybe five or six months later, to look for a carrying bag for it and other accessories and noticed that the 320 was no longer on display. Not only that, but all the accessories were also off the shelf. When asked why, he recognized me right away and said: "It didn't sell, Ben, I sold over 30 PPCs in the last 6 months, but only one 320 and you know who that was!" HPCs won't popular then, and they're not popular now, because the manufacturer didn't put them into people's faces light they did with the PPCs, for one; but also because the price of PPC was always, and still is, about half that of Handheld PC.

I hope you're right and that something good will come out. But don't hold your breath - you run the risk of turning blue before than happens!

Cheers!